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Oct 3

House of X #6 annotations

Posted on Thursday, October 3, 2019 by Paul in HoXPoX, x-axis

As always, this post is full of spoilers, and page numbers are according to the digital edition. This is the final issue of House of X, but I’ll be reviewing it and Powers of X together once both are complete, since they’re functionally a single book.

COVER (PAGE 1): Storm, Emma Frost and Exodus, on Krakoa, with Storm apparently addressing an audience. There are more people watching from the balconies in the background.

PAGE 2: The epigraph simply has Professor X proclaiming an imperfect but good start. That applies not just to his plan with Krakoa, but to the Hickman run in general – House of X is more of an extended prologue to establish the Krakoan status quo than it is a story in itself. The line comes from the Council meeting scene later in the issue.

PAGES 3-7: One month ago, Professor X dons the Cerebro helmet and makes his speech to humankind – the one that he gave shortly before issue #1.

Krakoa. Krakoa is floating, not connected to the sea bed. That would explain how it could have been hurled into space at the end of Giant-Size X-Men #1 (1975), and indeed how it could have got back. On the underside – with inverted gravity – is “Moira’s No-Space”, previously mentioned in Powers of X #5 as a location for one of Xavier’s backups of mutant data. Issue #1 established that a “No-Space” is also beyond the consciousness of Krakoa itself. There’s an obvious question here: why is all this being hidden? Note, by the way, that Xavier’s speech refers to “the island of Krakoa”. We’ll come back to that.

Professor X. Even though he starts the scene without his Cerebro helmet, every panel is framed so that we only see the lower part of his face or the back of his head – there’s no clear view of the parts of his face that are normally obscured by the helmet. But Magneto and Moira are looking right at him and seem to see nothing wrong. This doesn’t seem to be the first time that Xavier puts on the helmet – he was already wearing it when he went to recruit Emma in Powers of X #5. (And that scene must come first, because it takes place before Xavier’s pharmaceuticals have become public knowledge.)

Xavier’s speech. Xavier claims that the drugs “have been discovered by mutant scientists.” Who? Does he mean Moira and Sinister (who seems to be treated as a mutant for most purposes in this series)? Xavier also claims that his drugs extend life, cure mental illness, and prevent “most common maladies”, including “most cancers”. The “most” there is probably a nod to not breaking the rest of the Marvel Universe too badly while this storyline is running, but you have to figure that something is going to go wrong with these drugs in the end – partly because profound social changes in the MU tend not to stick, but partly because they’re just too odd to be a mere background point.

Xavier claims that he has realised that his dream of harmony between humans and mutants was a lie, with humans standing by and doing nothing to help when mutants were under attack. While he alludes to the Genoshan genocide, he stops short of actually accusing humans of committing it (rightly, since that was Cassandra Nova). Oddly, he refers to the dead mutants as “our children” rather than “us”, which is a theme that keeps coming up in this series. Broadly, Xavier is trying to portray himself here as someone who has abandoned a dream of integration instead of separation.

But remember, in Powers of X #5, Namor refused to join Xavier because he didn’t believe that Xavier really meant all this. And there are plenty of reasons to be deeply sceptical before taking Xavier’s speech at face value. For a start, he claims that he’s supplying drugs to humans on condition that humans recognise Krakoan sovereignty and grant amnesty to all mutants. But in Powers of X #5, he tasked Emma with delivering the drugs to countries that rejected the deal – so he seems to be lying about the conditions. Xavier frames his amnesty as giving convicted mutant criminals a chance to “overcome man’s bias against mutants”. But just look at what actually happens to Sabretooth – a supposed beneficiary of the amnesty – later in the issue. And Xavier claims that mutants are “the future” and “an evolutionary inevitability”. But he knows from Moira that in her previous lives, what actually happened is that the machines inevitably rose to prominence. By all appearances, then, Namor is right – this is an act, at least in part.

Here’s another point. In House of X #1, the epigraph credited Xavier with “Humans of the planet Earth. While you slept, the world changed.” (That’s actually the first and last sentences of his speech here.) In Powers of X #1, Percival’s dying words were “There was a dream. Our dreams are the same. While you slept, the world changed.” That appeared at the time to be an expansion of Xavier’s speech. But we now know that Percival actually comes from Moira’s previous life – and the two sentences about dreams being the same don’t feature in this version of Xavier’s speech at all.

PAGE 8. The credits. The story title listed here is “I Am Not Ashamed”, which would tend to suggest a mutant-pride angle. But in the Krakoan-text trailer pages, the title of this issue was given as “I Am Not Ashamed Of What I Do”, which is slightly different. The small print in the bottom right reads “The House of Xavier – The Three Laws.”

PAGES 9-10. Data pages on the Quiet Council of Krakoa. This is a repeat of what we saw in Powers of X #5, with most of the redactions removed and some added material about the “great captains”. Frankly, it’s not clear with hindsight what the point was of redacting all this so heavily in Powers of X #5, except to delay the reveal.

  • The “autumn” Council members are Professor X, Magneto and Apocalypse – presumably linked by their grand visions.
  • The “winter” group are Mister Sinister, Exodus and Mystique – all villains. Sinister has obvious practical importance to the plan, and Mystique may or may not have connections with Moira (via any clues that Destiny left for her). Exodus is a strange inclusion, since he’s traditionally been a rather slavish follower of Magneto who only takes a leadership role when Magneto is unavailable; perhaps that’s the point, that he’s a reliable vote who’s bound to side with Magneto.
  • “Spring” is Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost and a still-redacted Red King, all presumably representing Krakoa’s trading wing.
  • “Summer” is the traditional X-Men, represented by Storm, Jean Grey and – a little surprisingly – Nightcrawler.

The great captains. Basically the field leaders who are the next level down, it seems.

  • Cyclops. The “captain commander” and first among equals – but isn’t it a little odd that he didn’t make the cut for the Council? In favour of Nightcrawler…?
  • Gorgon. The Hand leader who’s had a couple of cameos before now, but has little previous history with the X-Men outside a few Wolverine stories.
  • Bishop. A veteran X-Man dating back to the early 90s – and not previously mentioned by Hickman. Bishop is a time traveller from a possible future generally along the lines of the Days of Futures Past, although in his world there was a successful rebellion which ended the Sentinel domination. How that fits into the inevitable robot ascension remains to be seen, but it’s striking that Hickman has kept the X-Men’s time travellers (who are not in short supply) at bay up till now.
  • Magik. Another established X-Man and former New Mutant, with bonus sorcery which might come in handy with all those comments about Inferno we had in Powers of X #4. Magik can also time travel, though it doesn’t come up that often.

PAGES 11-17. “Now.” This seems to be the first meeting of the Quiet Council, who decide on some laws and then punish Sabretooth for killing people during the raid in issue #1. The mysterious Red King is absent, and nobody comments on the empty chair. Everyone speaks normally in the meeting, so it’s not clear why it’s the “Quiet Council”.

The council chamber. The seats are in four groups of three (representing the four seasons), and the centre has the new “X” logo used on the covers of this series – the first time we’ve seen it in a story. Krakoa is in the background as a large tree trunk with a face, and Cypher perches puck-like in his branches, seemingly to act as interpreter – though all his actual contributions here seem to be on his own initiative. Xavier identifies the X-Men group as “family”, the Hellfire Club as “friends”, and the three blatant supervillains as “allies”, which is very tactful.

The laws. The Council proceed to debate what the basic laws of Krakoa should be. The discussion comes up with a grand total of three laws, which is not what you’d call a functioning legal system, and has more in common with religious guidance such as the Ten Commandments. These are: (1) Make more mutants; (2) Murder no man; and (3) Respect this sacred land.

The second law of mutantdom. This is the first one to be discussed, despite the numbering it gets later. In the discussion, the ban is specifically on taking a human life, on the logic that humans can’t come back, while mutants (now) can. The question of exceptions for self defence and so forth is acknowledged and kicked into the long grass; you get the sense that Magneto, at least, is willing to take a very flexible approach to what this law was “meant to” cover, should the point ever arise. Apocalypse seems to be suggesting that a bit of mutant-on-mutant violence should be encouraged so that they can continue to test their fitness. (His other argument – “How can it be a crime to kill someone who cannot be killed?” – is hopelessly bad. The answer is “because it’s still an assault.”)

Economic laws. Raised by Sebastian Shaw, and parked as a bit difficult for discussion. Cypher raises the understandable objection that people can’t own bits of Krakoa because it’s a person, and Storm seems to suggest mutants may still keep their actual homes outside Krakoa if they prefer it that way. Interestingly, Cypher claims that Krakoa is “fauna, not flora” – an animal rather than a sentient plant.

The third law of mutantdom. Exodus’s main contribution to the discussion – other than refusing point blank to talk to Sinister – is to propose that Krakoa be treated as sacred. Nobody disagrees with this… everyone seems quite on board with the cult-like aspects of the whole thing.

The first law of mutantdom. Proposed by Nightcrawler in response to Mystique taunting him about his religion – be fruitful and multiply, and all that. (Oddly, Mystique refers to Nightcrawler as if he were the only religious mutant.)

PAGE 18. A data page emblazoned with the three laws of mutantdom (which sounds a bit like Asimov’s Three Laws of Robotics, but that’s probably coincidence). Note the small print at the bottom of the page: “Krakoa 1, Arakko 0”. In Powers of X #4, we were told that the land of Okkara had been torn into Krakoa and Arakko back in primeval times. Why the laws lead to some kind of scoreline – if indeed that’s what it is – is unclear.

PAGES 19-22. Having decided that Sabretooth broke the laws they literally just made up, the Council sentence him for breaking them – the only discussion being about whether to give him another chance or make an example with him. Now we know why we had the scene with the human kangaroo court in issue #3 – while this is presented to make us more sympathetic to the X-Men, by any reasonable standard it’s far worse. Sabretooth is given no chance to speak or make his case, and then they torture him. And it’s not like they gave him the option of staying in the human jail.

(And, yes, they’re convicting him under a law they’ve just made up – but that’s the least of the issues here, since it’s a law against murder, and Sabretooth knew perfectly well that that was against the local law when he committed the crime.)

Sabretooth’s sentence is to be placed in stasis inside Krakoa, “alive but immobile, aware but unable to act on it”, and “forever.” Xavier describes this as exile, but by any reasonable standards it’s torture. Xavier claims that this is the only option because they don’t tolerate prisons on Krakoa, and if they executed him then they’d just have to bring him back. But neither reason holds water – they don’t have to bring him back if he dies. And what could possibly be the ethical objection to prisons if this is the alternative? Is this going to happen to everyone who commits a crime on Krakoa? What’s the punishment for not respecting the sacred land?

Xavier does note that perhaps one day Sabretooth will have a chance to redeem himself, so you have to wonder if we’re being told the whole story about where he’s going. Is he actually being packed off to Moira?

None of the Council seem to be surprised by this turn of events, but note their individual reactions. Magneto, Apocalypse, Exodus, Storm and Emma play it fairly straight. Sinister thinks it’s funny. Shaw is barely interested. Nightcrawler and Jean are slightly hesitant, but they vote for it anyway. The one person in the room who seems to have a real problem with it is… Mystique.

Sabretooth is dragged through a hole which opens up in the floor where the X-Men logo is. It’s battered and cracked when it heals over. This isn’t subtle. Yes, Xavier gives us a speech about having to make difficult decisions, but, er…

PAGES 23-27. From that, we go straight into a giant public party for the Krakoans, fireworks and all. Xavier again refers to the mutants as “millions of children”, and suggests that the Council are going to be taking the awful decisions that keep them awake at night, so that everyone else on Krakoa can live happy lives. While we end on a great celebration and a new dawn, there are plenty of signals that this won’t end well.

Recognisable among the crowd – and thus established to be on Krakoa, if we haven’t seen them before – are the following:

  • There’s someone with big feathered wings on page 23. This can’t be Warren, since he’s in Archangel form with metal wings when we see him on page 25. It might be Icarus, Cannonball’s brother, who was killed in New X-Men #27 (2006).
  • The Five dancing together.
  • Banshee, clearly seen as back to his old self and cured of his zombie-ish appearance. Did Elixir sort him out, or was he restored from back-up?
  • Siryn, his daughter.
  • Dazzler, entertaining the crowd. Dazzler’s powers work by converting sound to light, so the idea is that Siryn is screaming at Dazzler to boost her light show.
  • Archangel, Iceman and Beast. Note that the rebooted Warren is back in Archangel form, despite that being the result of Apocalypse’s experiments and not his natural mutant powers. Curious.
  • Exodus, telling stories to children around the campfire. If you look closely, Sinister is lurking in the background, watching.
  • Marvel Girl, Cyclops and Wolverine – traditionally something of a romantic triangle, with Cyclops and Wolverine as rivals, but all friends here.
  • Anole, Surge, Gentle, Pixie, Broo, Synch and Skin. Mostly assorted trainees of varying generations, though Gentle and Pixie have been on the main team for brief stints. Synch died in Generation X #70 (2000) and Skin in Uncanny X-Men #423 (2003), so both have evidently been restored from back-up.
  • Gorgon, offered a drink by Wolverine – a remarkable gesture given that Gorgon was the bad guy who turned Wolverine into a Hand agent in Mark Millar’s “Enemy of the State” storyline from Wolverine (2004-5). In a similar gesture of reconciliation, Jean offers a drink to Emma Frost, who had an affair with her husband in the Grant Morrison run. All of this is a little bit Too Good To Be True.
  • Jubilee and a woman in glasses who looks to be Boom-Boom.
  • Shark-Girl, just visible as a silhouette behind Emma in one panel.
  • Havok, Cyclops’s brother, who died in the final issue of Matthew Rosenberg’s Uncanny X-Men and has been restored from back-up almost immediately. (If you were thinking that the X-Men who died on the space station might not have been the originals… well, that argument isn’t available with Havok.)
  • Apocalypse sits off to one side and watches.

PAGES 28-29. Data pages on Krakoa… both of them. One in the Atlantic, the other in the Pacific. Note that Xavier’s telepathic speech to the world only referred to “the island”, so something’s up here. The small print on page 28 says “Krakoa Spawn Atlantic” and “Krakoa Spawn World”, which sounds a bit worrying. The Atlantic island has only three features shown: a transit hub, “the Pointe” (which was mentioned in Powers of X #5 as one of Xavier’s back-up database locations) and a training location called the Danger Island (the latest incarnation of the Danger Room).

The Pacific island map has grown some new points since we last saw it in issue #1. The first twelve items on the key are the same. Five new items have been added:

  • Bar Sinister, which must be Sinister’s home.
  • Hellfire Bay, presumably the base of the Hellfire Trading Company.
  • The Red Keep, presumably something to do with this Red King guy.
  • “Blackstone”, which means nothing to me.
  • The White Palace, which sounds like Emma.

Item 18 on the map is off in the sea, and is left blank in the index. It forms part of an area of sea marked off with a dotted line; it’s not clear yet what that refers to, but the line was on the issue #1 map too.

PAGE 30. The closing quote from Magneto, drawn from the party scene: “Just look at what we have made.”

PAGES 31-32. The reading order, and the single train for Powers of X #6, which reads “NEXT: HOUSE OF X.”

Bring on the comments

  1. CJ says:


    What happens on Krakoa stays on Krakoa.

  2. Chris V says:

    Moira wouldn’t effect Bishop, Rachel, or Cable because all three come from alternate future time-lines.
    Their futures still occur somewhere in the Marvel multiverse.
    Moira’s actions might influence whether Rachel or Bishop ever travel back in time, or whether Cable is even born.
    However, it wouldn’t matter, because Bishop, Rachel, and Cable are only important in traveling to our current version of Earth-616.


    I am also thinking that there is no mystery in the way anyone is acting either.
    I’d prefer that. I don’t want a big reveal that Xavier is being mind-controlled or that Onslaught is back…

    I’m wondering if it might be related to the souls though.
    These characters have no soul.
    Everyone is acting pretty soulless in the scene with Sabretooth.
    Plus, Kurt who is a Christian and been to Heaven is acting like he doesn’t really know what will happen after they die (which, they’re expecting to never die anyway).
    I get the idea that Xavier was lying about a soul.

    There is so much religious symbolism that has appeared throughout this series.
    Krakoa is supposed to be Heaven.
    The council of twelve represent godhood.
    Xavier referring to other mutants as “our children”.
    Sabretooth has been taken to Hell.

  3. Chris V says:

    Although…Mystique was the one who showed some remorse over Sabretooth’s fate.
    That could be Hickman’s attempt at characterization, by pointing to the fact that Mystique and Sabretooth used to be lovers.
    It’s interesting that it is Mystique though.

    What if Mystique is the (only?) one who is not a clone. Destiny is alive somewhere (in No-Place?). They’ve made a pact with Moira.
    Remember, it was meeting with Mystique and Destiny that changed Moira.
    Sinister might be in on it with the three others.

  4. Thom H. says:

    I got the same good-time vibe in the panel with Jean, Scott, and Logan. Post-human values and all that.

  5. Nu-D says:

    I was so excited by this new direction for the X-Men that for the first time since 1995 I have been buying single issues when they’re released.

    But y’know what? I’m kinda bored. At first it was interesting and exciting because it seemed to be building up to something. But now it seems like the threads can’t really all fit together. I totally lost interest reading this issue. I’ll buy the last one next week, but after that it’s back to TPB’s.

  6. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    @Chris V:
    But Mystique was part of the Mother Mold mission. There were no survivors. And she just emerged from a Gold Ball and had her mind reapplied via Xavier.

    How could she not be a clone?

  7. Chris V says:

    Nevermind. I forgot about that.
    I thought she was lost during the mission, and they didn’t know what happened to her.
    My memory playing tricks.
    I’m wrong.

  8. Chris V says:

    Yeah, this series might be about what mutants as the “next stage of human evolution” means.
    Morrison and Millar both had commentary about, “Who says what comes next will be better?”.

  9. Steve Cameron says:

    I thought this was an unexpectedly weak wrap to the series, though I should probably hold off on my disappointment til after PoX #6 next week.

    Regarding Nightcrawler on the council : yeah, it’s super weird. I think this was a clumsy attempt to insert “faith” into the council for the purposes of framing rule #1. There’s a lot of X-Men who I’d have put there before him. Besides Cyclops, there’s both Beast and Wolverine who I think would have offered a more interesting tension. Especially Beast, who in recent years has been an effective counterpoint to Cyclops’s most fanatical tendencies (which now seem pretty parochial compared to Xavier’s).

    Magik being one of the captains also struck me as weird. Why not Dani or Sam or even Roberto? Actually, if Cyclops is only a captain, why isn’t Storm also a captain instead of being on the council? It seems like these captains (aside from Cyclops) were chosen to represent different special interests : the eastern mystical underworld; the demonic and magical worlds; and the future and time-travellers.

    Over all as a last issue (even if it’s not the real end of this opening chapter), HoX #6 left me feeling that Hickman’s X-Men experiment is off to a shaky start. It feels like it was treading water, missing a narrative spanner in the works to advance the enterprise. My guess is that PoX #6 is going to be very future focused, so this present day stuff is going to remain treading water until X-Men #1 comes out. Maybe not though, since PoX #6 is one of the red-highlighted issues in the reading order. Fingers crossed.

  10. Omar Karindu says:

    In the original reveal, Apocalypse gave Essex powers, turning him into Mister Sinister. Has Apocalypse ever given a human powers besides Essex?

    Peter Milligan’s X-Men run had Apocalypse empower the Leper Queen, a human, anti-mutant bigot.

    Through a Claremont-scripted retcon in Classic X-Men in the late 1980s, Apocalypse also empowered Moses Magnum, formerly an ordinary human villain. originally, it was another gang of minor villains called They Who Wield Power, but the Apocalypse retcon has been referenced in later magnum appearances.

    He also used Celestial technology to briefly make the Hulk into his Horseman of War in the late 1990s, and tried to repeat the scheme later after he’d brainwashed Wolverine into serving as Death in the buildup to the disappointing “The Twelve” storyline.

    That same storyline introduced a retcon in which Apocalypse who directed Sinister to use Havok’s DNA to create the living Pharaoh/Monolith, another retcon. And (yet again) that same era had Apocalypse make Deathbird one of his Horsemen, though I suppose it could be argued that she’s sort of a mutant because of her “atavistic” features for a Shi’ar.

  11. PersonofCon says:

    It’s been a long, long time since I read the comics where Apocalypse converted Hulk into War, but IIRC, there was the justification that he saw something big was happening with the Celestials and cosmic beings (the return of the heroes from Heroes Reborn) and he knew the Hulk was going to be involved, so this got him a front row seat. Or maybe I’m rationalizing a half-remembered story.

    Yeah, the Twelve storyline saw Apocalypse turning Rory Campbell into Ahab to work for him as Famine. But a lot of characters in that storyline made choices that were… perhaps not well established in their reasoning.

  12. wwk5d says:

    Cable and Moire were shown to know each other from as early as the Liefeld era of New Mutants. They alluded to having a past together, which other writers later confirmed in other stories.

  13. Chris V says:

    As far as the Council again, I think that it makes sense that Scott is on the “Captains” instead.
    I know he’s evolved (but is he the Scott we knew? See:Marvel Girl), but Scott was always the tactician and field leader, while Professor X was the leader and “father figure”.
    Besides, if/when Krakoa is threatened, then Scott becomes the de facto military dictator.

    Storm seems to have a prominent role on Krakoa.
    She was the one who was leading the ceremony when the clones were unveiled.
    I think it makes sense to see Storm on the Council.
    Notice also that her reaction lined up with Xavier and Magneto, rather than with the rest of the ‘Summer Council”.
    It may be the nature of her powers that make her important too.

    Kurt doesn’t really make much sense, other than some type of religious connotation.
    It doesn’t seem like Jean or Kurt are actually going to have much power anyway, so it’s mere tokenism to have three X-Men on the Council (although Storm’s position, as I said, seems more important).

    Leaving out Logan makes sense too. Once again, yes, he’s evolved since then, but throughout the Claremont run, Wolverine never wanted to be a leader.

  14. Jason Rubinstein says:

    omg why was this so boring 🙁

  15. Ben (Fake Brent) says:

    Make More Mutants is so creepy.

    Is contraception illegal on Krakoa?

    Will they stick Iceman and Northstar in the hell pit?

    Are they anti-abortion now?

    If the end reveal is that everyone is acting psychotic like this of their own free will, it’s a real problem.

  16. Taibak says:

    I suppose it’s possible Hickman is building on Nightcrawler’s characterization from Excalibur, where he absolutely was a leader. That’s pretty far in the past though.

    And is it possible that Mystique was taunting Nightcrawler specifically for his Catholicism, rather than for being more generously religious? His faith has always been a big part of his character and there doesn’t seem to be anything about Krakoa that’s even remotely compatible with Catholic teachings.

  17. Taibak says:

    CJ: Rachel and Moira both used to live on Muir Island back when they were with Excalibur.

  18. Job says:


    “Doing something purely for the sake of delaying a reveal is totally something Hickman would do,”

    Yes, and that doesn’t address what “the point” of doing it is.

    “A typical Hickman character is so zealous and set in their aims and desires that it’s almost impossible to imagine them changing their opinion.”

    How does that apply to any character in HoXPoX besides Xavier?

  19. Job says:


    “But now it seems like the threads can’t really all fit together.”

    It’s worse than that, I’m afraid. Someone else informed me that Hickman has gone on to state, after the release of the Moira issue, that HoXPoX isn’t about Moira at all and she’s actually nothing more than a plot device. So expect nothing about her 10/11 lives to be resolved at all next issue, if ever.

  20. Dave says:

    It’s not in the text, and I don’t expect it will be, but you can reason Cyclops AND Wolverine not being on the council because last time they were both leaders they split the X-Men in half. Even then though, you need to ignore all the other ‘disagreements’ everyone else on the council has had.

  21. Chris V says:

    Ben-I don’t know if procreation is legal on Krakoa.
    Mutants have given birth to non-mutant offspring in the past…Sabreooth and Mystique giving birth to Graydon Creed for one.
    Wouldn’t they be forced to kill the “deviant” babies?

    They are practically immortal and creating clones.
    Nightcrawler’s comment was in reference to Krakoa’s master plan to bring back every mutant that was ever killed, through the cloning process.

    Is this going to be like Age of X-Man though? Are there going to be sex police again?

  22. YLu says:

    >Besides, if/when Krakoa is threatened, then Scott becomes the de facto military dictator.

    I’m not sure about that. The wording’s vague enough that none of this is clear yet, but there’s no indication of to what extent, if any, his authority could exceed the Council’s in such circumstances.

    Though I do wonder if part of the deal with him not having a seat is that they see being both Council member and the “captain commander” as a breach of some separation of powers-type notion. And active military in charge of civilian governance can always be a creepy look, of course.

    Plus, from a real world perspective, if you’re only interested in writing about the movers and shakers in the cast (which is largely true of Hickman, judging by his past works), more separate leadership positions means having more characters to draw on for your grand plot shenanigans.

  23. YLu says:

    >Yes, and that doesn’t address what “the point” of doing it is.

    Ramping up mystery and speculation are the goals. It’s from the same school of thought that’s led Marvel to make these books pretty much the only ones of their entire line they provide no 3-4 page previews for (and the one time they did, with the HOX/POX #1 preview, they edited a bunch of the dialogue to make it less revealing).

    >How does that apply to any character in HoXPoX besides Xavier?

    Outside a few villains like Mystique, I’d say pretty much everyone is being really gung-ho and all in for the Genosha set-up. To the point where a lot of folks have talked about a cult-like atmosphere.

    And from the other side, there’s the machine religiosity throughout the Year 100 timeline.

  24. CJ says:

    Probably will never come up: If two mutants (“X-gene positive”) have a baby, is it possible for it to not be a mutant? Would the baby not be welcome on Krakoa? Is Jubilee’s Shogo welcome?

    Yeah, has anyone since Warren Ellis written Nightcrawler to be a strike-force commander like he was in those issues?

    I was wondering about time-travelers because I thought Hickman wanted to avoid causal headaches. For example, if Cable and the nth Moira interact and Cable goes back to his future, then the next Moira could have behaved differently with Cable, thus potentially modifying or obliterating Cable’s own timeline that otherwise she has no access to (e.g., kill Madelyne Pryor and marry Scott). Since Moira is probably just a plot device and not a source of new stories, it’s moot.

  25. Suzene says:


    We’ve already seen Shogo in teasers for Excalibur, so it seems non-mutants aren’t utterly forbidden from residing on Krakoa, but more they need some kind of mutant sponsorship to even make the attempt.

  26. CJ says:

    Ah right–and in HoX #1 we learned Krakoa has to approve anyone who sets foot on it. I guess non-mutant family members might be sponsored in.

  27. Job says:


    “Ramping up mystery and speculation are the goals.”

    The “mystery” was delayed one week. A council was announced on a text page, and then in the VERY NEXT ISSUE, we see nearly all of the council. This is not how you effectively build a mystery.

    “I’d say pretty much everyone is being really gung-ho and all in for the Genosha set-up.”

    This doesn’t correlate with what you wrote before. You said “A typical Hickman character is so zealous and set in their aims and desires that it’s almost impossible to imagine them changing their opinion.” Which characters have expressed their aims and desires beyond Xavier? Who are you describing besides Xavier?

  28. YLu says:

    “A council was announced on a text page, and then in the VERY NEXT ISSUE, we see nearly all of the council.”

    Sure. One week is plenty of time to speculate. Just ask anyone who watches a network TV show.

    “Which characters have expressed their aims and desires beyond Xavier?”

    You don’t think most of the mutants showing up don’t clearly share Xavier’s aims and the Genoshan dream?

  29. Chris V says:

    Outside of Sabretooth and Mystique, who created a non-mutant child, have we ever seen two mutants reproduce?
    I can’t think of any other mutant and mutant relationships where they have had children.

    There is Scott, but Madelyne was a clone created by Sinister.

    The one time two mutants reproduced, it gave the world Graydon Creed.
    Are there any other examples?

  30. Chris V says:

    CJ-It actually does create a huge problem with someone like Cable.
    The idea was that Cable’s future was originally the future of Earth-616, at the point where Cable travels back in time.
    Cable’s traveling to the past prevents that future from occurring, and sets up that future Earth as an alternate Earth.
    That’s why Cable traveled back in time to the Earth-616 past.
    It wasn’t a mistake on his part.

    However, based on what we’ve seen in House and Powers, the future where Apocalypse rose up and conquered the planet, exterminating most human life, is shown to have never been a possibility for the future of Earth-616.
    Xavier and Moira were, apparently, always planning to forge an alliance with Apocalypse on Krakoa.

    So, why would Cable’s future ever have been a possibility as the actual future of Earth-616?

    Yeah, I don’t think discrepancies like this will ever be addressed.
    It’s the same as ret-cons like “Apocalypse being as old as the planet” and the “Technarchy/Phalanx” switch.
    They don’t make any sense, but we’re probably just meant to ignore the problems.

  31. PersonofCon says:

    @ChrisV: “The one time two mutants reproduced, it gave the world Graydon Creed.
    Are there any other examples?”

    Well, there’s various future characters, including Rachel, Raze, and Ruby Summers. Nightcrawler himself, depending how you count Azrael.

  32. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    Beak and Angel had kids. (Whatever happened to them?) And Madrox and Layla, though technically we’ve only seen the offspring in an alternate future.

    Also Archangel and one of his Horsemen of cosplaying Apocalypse.

  33. Zoomy says:

    Molly Hayes is very arguably the mutant offspring of two mutants, though it’s been made pretty clear over the years that she probably isn’t.

    I’d like to see a story involving mutants who haven’t generally got involved with the X-Men life, like Justice, dealing with the whole Krakoa situation.

    It’s worth mentioning that the next-issue trailers called this one “I am not ashamed of what I am”, rather than “what I do”. “What I do” would have been a lot cooler and more sinister, though…

    And I must say, I’m surprised to see everyone talking about HoxPox as a prologue, rather than something to be appreciated in itself. Is it just that X-Men comics have been nothing but ‘setting up the new status quo’ for so long now? Myself, I’m enjoying every new issue of this, but I’m not planning to keep buying when it diversifies into different series and writers. I’m sure it’ll be just a couple of months until the next new status quo event…

  34. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    I’d say it’s pretty much because HoxPox has been marketed as setup for Hickman’s run since the first news broke. Even more since they announced Dawn of X books.

    And also because it’s written like that. In story terms, not much has actually happened.

    Speaking of Dawn of X, after the initial release I was looking forward to the New Mutants book and maybe Fallen Angels, because I find the callback fascinating. But now, after the last two issues of Hoxpox, I’m most looking forward to Marauders.

    …maybe because it’s the only book that actually has been set up by Hoxpox so far.

  35. Luis Dantas says:

    @Krzysiek Ceran: Most of Beak and Angel’s children were transformed into normal humans at the close of Beak’s participation in the dimension-hopping Exiles team. All but one, who I assume was featured in some sort of flashforward scene.

  36. Mordechai Buxner says:

    @Chris V: The current state of the Marvel Universe wouldn’t exist as it does without Days of Future Past having been averted. This is a different timeline (and in both of those, it was Moira’s ninth life), where different things happened and different choices were made. These don’t seem like “discrepancies” so much as business as usual with time travel.

  37. Job says:


    “One week is plenty of time to speculate.”

    This doesn’t mean anything, especially since most people will be reading this story once it’s all collected. I don’t know why you keep throwing out claims you can’t support.

    “You don’t think most of the mutants showing up don’t clearly share Xavier’s aims and the Genoshan dream?”

    I’m not in the habit of making up fan fiction to supplement a comic’s lack of characterization. I’m discussing what’s actually on the page. Again, I don’t know why you keep throwing out claims you can’t support.

  38. Chris V says:

    Mordechai-I’m not sure what you mean by “both of those” in your response.
    The Apocalypse and Phalanx ret-cons?

    If so:
    First of all, no, those weren’t in a previous life.
    It was during the origin of Krakoa told to Doug Ramsey where it was mentioned, once again, that Apocalypse was “nearly as old as the planet”.
    Also, it was in the Year 1,000 scenes that the Phalanx/Technarchy switch was mentioned. We don’t know what time-line the Year 1,000 scenes go with.

    However, regardless, nothing that Moira does can effect anything related to Apocalypse’s life-span or the origin of the Phalanx species.
    Moira doesn’t recreate the entre Marvel Universe.
    She only reverts to the period at which she was born, and lives her life again, while making new choices to try to change how things will happen.

    Nothing that Moira could ever do could make it so that “Apocalypse was as old as the planet” or change the nature of the Phalanx/Technarchy relations.

  39. Taibak says:

    I think it’s pretty clear that two mutants can produce mutant offspring. Beak and Angel Savadore did and I don’t think there’s any way around Rachel and Nocturne.

    That said, given that we’ve also got Graydon Creed and Luna Maximoff, I’d say that it’s far from guaranteed.

  40. YLu says:

    “This doesn’t mean anything, especially since most people will be reading this story once it’s all collected.”

    So in the collected version, it’s hinting at a concept but waiting until the next chapter to actually show it in detail. I don’t see the problem there. That’s so par for the course in fiction it’s not even worth commenting on.

    “I’m discussing what’s actually on the page.”

    What’s on the page is everyone being gung ho for the Krakoan cause.

  41. YLu says:

    Forgot to include @Job in the above.

  42. Job says:


    “it’s hinting at a concept but waiting until the next chapter”

    That’s not waiting. This doesn’t mean anything. You’re not being coherent again.

    “What’s on the page is everyone being gung ho”

    No, we have no characterization of “everyone.” You seem to have forgotten your claim again. This is what you claimed: “A typical Hickman character is so zealous and set in their aims and desires that it’s almost impossible to imagine them changing their opinion.” The only character this applies to is Professor X. You really need to stop making claims you can’t support. You’re bad at this.

  43. Chris V says:

    I’m not an expert, but as far as I’m aware, two mutants reproducing will always produce mutant offspring.

    Luna could be explained away by the fact that Crystal is an Inhuman.

    It seems like Creed is an outlier.
    I’m surprised some writer didn’t come along to explain this away by making it so that Mystique isn’t really a mutant.

    I better not say anymore, in case it gives some comic writer an idea…

  44. Mordechai Buxner says:

    @Chris V: By “both of them” I meant both the Days of Future Past timeline (before it became a different universe) and the current timeline. In both, Moira’s in her ninth life.

    I don’t know about Apocalypse. We have what, two cryptic lines of dialogue to go by right now? Let’s actually see the retcon before guessing about how clumsy it’ll be. (But why would this retcon have anything to do with Moira?)

  45. Chris V says:

    I should add that, based on what I understand, the more offspring they produce, the less likely there is that that the offspring will continue to be a mutant.
    I meant with a first child, with my above statement.

  46. In current continuity, Luna Maximoff has nothing to do with mutants. Her mother was an Inhuman and her father is, since the retcon in Uncanny Avengers, a mutate created by the High Evolutionary. No mutants involved.

  47. SanityOrMadness says:

    Job> …most people will be reading this story once it’s all collected.

    [Citation needed]

    HoX #2-3 & PoX #2-3 hovered around 100-110k in the Comichron estimates of NA direct market orders for August – – sitting in the top 10.

    The same month, the most-ordered TPB/HC/OGN was Walking Dead vol. 32, with 11.35k orders on the same basis. Slightly more than a tenth of the HoX/PoX singles. (And the second place book, the Batman Who Laughs HC, was less than half that, at 5.3k)

    And, yeah, the collections’ll accumulate some more orders over time (although, with all the reprintings, that’s not all the orders for the HoX/PoX singles either, even within the limits of the data), but not THAT many. And standard Marvel collections’ sales in “other” book channels (non-DM, non-North America) have never shown any sign on Brian Hibbs’ Bookscan columns and other data of threatening to make up those sorts of numbers either.

    The evidence is that, still, FAR more people read these things as singles than TPB/HC.

    (I doubt digital biases any less towards the singles, but I don’t have any hard data on that front).

  48. It was, for once, very smart business sense by Marvel. Not just launching two(ish) new weekly series, but cleaning out the line of most other ongoings. They did that before when they relaunched Avengers and it must have worked.

  49. Brent says:

    I didn’t take the reveal of the Quiet Council members as some big tease. I assumed the names were redacted “in-story” and only implied that at that point in the narrative (immediately following Xavier and Magneto’s conversation with Emma) there were only 4 members who were confirmed at that point. If you read that conversation and then turned the page to see the whole council laid out, it would imply that Emma was the last name added. It shows us how important Emma is to Xavier’s plan.

    I could be wrong. But I never thought it was going to be a secret for long anyway… especially since they released that cover weeks ago that has the whole council together. So obviously we’d see it this week in HoX or next week in PoX before Dawn of X.

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