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Sep 4

The X-Axis – 4 September 2011

Posted on Sunday, September 4, 2011 by Paul in x-axis

It’s a podcast weekend, so don’t forget to check out the show just one post down from here.  Strangely enough, there’s a lot of stuff about the DC relaunch, but we’re also reviewing Angel and Faith and Secret Avengers.

And for once, it’s a very quiet week for the X-books – one regular title, one oddball obscurity – which means we’ve got time to talk about the other stuff.

Angel & Faith #1 – Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 was, shall we say, not an unmitigated success.  By getting carried away with the lack of practical restrictions in comics, it lost sight of what made the original TV show work, and turned into a very strange cosmic superhero title – to such a degree that the final issue ended up carrying an editorial from Joss Whedon acknowledging that he’d taken a bit of a wrong turn and pledging a back to basics approach in Season 9.

(And as I said on the podcast, I think publishers really do underestimate the value of acknowledging when something hasn’t worked.  It’s a very good way of rebuilding audience trust – and sometimes, after a really misconceived book like Ultimatum, that’s what you need to do.)

Season 9 doesn’t actually start for another couple of weeks, but the spin-off title Angel and Faith begins here – or rather, the latest incarnation of the Angel title that was previously published by IDW, if you prefer.  This book can’t ignore Season 8, where Angel turned out to be the cosmic villain, but it acknowledges that while reverting to a more familiar style.  With Giles dead (and Angel having killed him), Angel and Faith are trying to sort out some of his outstanding business.  That’s basically the set-up.  Bring on the monster of the week and some broader storylines in which Faith gets to grips with just how questionable some of Angel’s recent decisions have been.

The potential downside here is that the book could swing too far in the other direction and become too faithful to the TV shows, but I think the pairing of Angel and Faith as co-leads is novel enough to strike the right balance.  Christos Gage is one of the most consistent writers in mainstream comics, and he’s got the characters right while still pacing this as a comic.  Rebekah Isaacs’ art generally manages to combine faithful likenesses with expressiveness (though Al does have a point that her David Boreanaz isn’t quite as reliable).  A decent book, and a promising further sign that Whedon has the right idea for Season 9.

Flashpoint #5 – I wonder whether it was such a bright idea for DC to ship Flashpoint and Justice League as their only two books for this week.  After all, in theory you’ve got all these new readers coming into the stores to try out the relaunch.  That’s the idea, anyway.  And you’re selling them… two books.  One is Justice League, of which more in a moment.  And the other is Flashpoint, which is the final issue of a five-issue miniseries that exists primarily to justify the new DCU as a continuation of the old one.

The big reveal here is that the Flash caused the disruption to continuity by going back in time to avert his mother’s death, which is a nice idea in theory.  On the other hand, it’s less than clear how that connects to the broader changes in the world – beyond a handwaving, butterfly-effect level, which is hardly dramatically satisfying – and after all his careful scheming to get to this point, the Reverse-Flash ends up playing an almost peripheral role in the story.  He seems to be here simply because somebody needs to explain the plot.  The closing scene with Flash and Batman is a nice sequence, though, and at least the book remembers to tell a story as a springboard for the reboot.

Still, it’s a serviceable comic rather than a great one, and a very strange one to be pushing out there alongside Justice League.  If those new readers are coming to the stores, why would they be interested in this?  Wouldn’t it make more sense to have some other issue #1s on the shelves in the hope that it increases the chances of them finding one they like?  Flashpoint doesn’t exist for new readers, it exists to validate to the new DCU to current readers – and I don’t quite follow DC’s thinking in the way they’re promoting it.

Gambit: From the Marvel Vault – If you’ve managed to avoid them until now, the “Vault” one-shots basically consist of unpublished stories which have been lying at the back of a drawer for literally years.  Apparently a bunch of them were turned up during Marvel’s last office move, and somebody figured that since they already existed, why not publish them?

This one presumably started life as an inventory issue of Gambit.  Oddly, it’s drawn by George Tuska, an artist who had been around since the Golden Age and who was pretty much semi-retired by the time Gambit was even created.  The original plot has been lost – Scott Lobdell is credited as writer, but he’s simply producing a script based on what the story must presumably have been.  Tuska died two years ago, so he can’t help.  And that original story, for some strange reason, featured a pre-superhero Gambit teaming up with the Champions to fight MODOK.

It has to be said that the storytelling is very strong, and nobody would have had too much trouble figuring out the basic shape of this story, even without the aid of the plot.  There’s an object everyone’s chasing after; MODOK and Gambit must be separately trying to steal it, while the Champions are trying to protect it; and the ending has Gambit charging up the object in order to beat MODOK with it.  Which isn’t exactly Shakespeare, but at least it involves Gambit choosing to do the right thing, in a way that makes use of his powers – so there’s something to work with here.  And that’s pretty much what Lobdell writes, though he can’t resist introducing a joke subplot about AIM soldiers thinking obsequious thoughts to impress their telepathic leader, which surely wasn’t in the original.

God knows when this was commissioned – Gambit didn’t even get an ongoing series until 1999, by which time Tuska was 83.  It’s hardly a lost classic and it must have looked very dated even at the time.  And the closing panels suggest that Tuska may not have completely understood that Gambit’s charged objects are meant to blow up when they hit something (otherwise, he’s made a very odd storytelling decision not to show the explosion).  From a purely commercial standpoint, I can well understand why this has been languishing in a cupboard for a decade.  But still, it’s nice to see a story where pretty much all the beats make sense even without a script.

Justice League #1 – We discussed this on the podcast and I’m not going to repeat what we said there.  Suffice to say that the art’s very nice, and I don’t have the same hang-ups about the costume tweaking that some people do.  There’s a decent effort being made to introduce characters to new readers.  If you assume that the re-introduction of well-established concepts counts as plot, there’s actually more plot going on than you might expect.  And I quite like the idea that early Batman doesn’t get the automatic respect because nobody actually knows who he is yet.

But… there’s not enough of it.  It’s the opening pages of a graphic novel, not a satisfying story in its own right.  Either they needed to make it denser, or they needed to make it longer, but it’s not quite right in this format.  It’s 24 pages long, it doesn’t even get around to featuring Wonder Woman, Flash or Aquaman let alone having the actual League in it…  I’m not saying it needed to be a self-contained story, but it did need to be a satisfying chapter, and it’s not.  It’s just not very well paced for the serial.  And that’s a problem, because if DC are serious about attracting new readers, they can’t count on people coming back for the next few issues.  They needed to grab them here.  I don’t think they’ve done it.

Uncanny X-Force #14 – Hold on, isn’t it just last week that I reviewed issue #13?  Yes… yes, it is.  Huh.  Strange scheduling there.

This is part 4 of “The Dark Angel Saga”, and it explains what Warren was up to while the rest of X-Force were off in the Age of Apocalypse timeline.  And it’s good.  For one thing, we’ve got Jerome Opena on art again; his art has always been a highlight of this book, since he’s got a unique design sense and an unexpected delicacy to his work, even while he’s doing nice clear action scenes.

But we’ve also got the introduction of Evil Warren, and Rick Remender writes him perfectly.  In the Age of Apocalypse timeline, we had Wolverine as the new Apocalypse, solemnly convinced that the maniac was right all along.  This is meant to be a similar transformation, but the clever bit is that Warren is also a kinder, gentler, more serene Apocalypse.  Instead of becoming a typical ranting supervillain, he’s nice to the underlings, and kind to children.  After all, he’s bringing in Utopia.  Opena’s art catches this idea perfectly; he nails the body language, and I love the way he has Warren’s wings casually trailing after him like a cape.  He’s all the more effective as a villain for being so infuriatingly nice about it.

Vescell #1 – Well, somebody had to be crazy enough to launch a new book against DC.  Vescell is an (apparently ongoing) series by Enrique Carrion and John Upchurch, published through Image.  And it’s pretty dreadful.

It’s basically a sci-fi book.  The Vescell Corporation transfers people’s minds from one body to another.  Apparently this is tremendously lucrative, though you might have thought the market would be limited.  Mauricio Barrino is the Corporation’s top agent, since apparently a lot of people who need Vescell’s services are “in high risk situations” (well, I suppose you’d have to be desperate).  But wait – there’s also an entirely separate supernatural plot about something called “the Banerealm” crossing over with Earth.  Mauricio’s lover is stuck in the Banerealm for some reason or other (but can be conjured up as a spirit), and he’s also got a sidekick who’s a fairy.

There are some reasonable concepts in there.  But the book also has flat characters, a tiresome obsession with sex, a lot of painfully unfunny comedy, occasional sidelines into pretentious crucifixion metaphors, clunky dialogue, laughable dialogue, and a casual and tenuous relationship with punctuation.  At the very least, this book needs a proofreader – who on earth allows “Besides you’re a fairy don’t u want to see a Disney movie?” to see print?  Yes, there’s a glimmer of potential in the premise, but the execution is wildly inept.  Frankly, it’s the worst thing I’ve read this year.

God knows what Image were thinking when this one was pitched.  Evidently not googling the word “Vescell”, which would have turned up the fact that the name is taken.

Bring on the comments

  1. Hellsau says:

    “God knows what Image were thinking when this one was pitched. Evidently not googling the word “Vescell”, which would have turned up the fact that the name is taken.”

    It’s a giant ad for Vescell, the leader in adult stem cell therapy, apparently.

  2. Daibhid Ceannaideach says:

    The closing scene of Flashpoint is lovely … as long as you don’t think “But he’s not actually ‘our’ Bruce Wayne. He’s a broadly similar Bruce Wayne we’ve never seen before, but will be learning more about in the next few months.” It’s definitely a case where “Everything has changed!” is working against the actual story.

  3. Andy says:

    On Flashpoint #5: Even if we assume some sort of butterfly effect, how does Flash’s action have an impact on the Wayne family shooting – an event that occurred either around the same time (but very far away) or possibly even before? Sure, some of the changes in the tie-ins are even more preposterous, but the Wayne family stuff was a major plot point in Flashpoint itself.

    @Daibhid: He’s not just a broadly similar Bruce Wayne we’ve never seen before, he’s a broadly similar Bruce Wayne who will nevertheless somehow bring a satisfying resolution to the investigations of the Bruce Wayne (& Dick Grayson) of a completely separate, now-nonexistent(?) timeline.

    On Gambit: Do we know for sure this was intended to be a Gambit story? Even at the time it would have been an odd non sequitur in a Gambit solo series. We only see him use his powers in a couple of panels – would it have been that hard for the colorist to give a few items a pink glow? My guess is that someone at Marvel saw a Champions story with a unidentified thief & figured the best chance for sales was to call him Gambit and let the X-Men completists pick it up. That would also explain the lack of explosion in the climax.

  4. Paul says:

    He does throw cards too. It’s definitely Gambit.

  5. Zach says:

    The main problem with Flashpoint is that there are gaping plot holes centered around the idea of Flash being the cause of all the problems.
    For one, Barry (and every single speedster in the DCU, practically) has already discussed how it is folly to change the past. That bad things happen, etc. I’m pretty sure Barry himself experienced this before and learned his lesson.
    Two, all throughout issue 2 and 3, Barry explains how bad it is to change the past, and he even states that the changes were so drastic that it couldn’t possibly be from just one divergence, but required multiple attacks.

    So either Geoff forgot all this or something was clearly wrong from the get-go.

  6. thomas says:

    The rumor is that this Justice League we are seeing now was intended to be one of DC’s Secret Origins mini-series. The book was started like two years ago for Lee to have time to complete it and was later turned into this launch for the “new 52”. If the book really is complete then it should have shipped weekly to get customers in the store for each wave of launch titles or as a complete graphic novel. Weekly publication would even get more people on the DC app every week, I find it hard to believe that anyone was hooked off this comic at $4.00 either.

    A big problem Dc had for years were characters like Power Girl and Donna Troy fitting into a new continuity. Seems to me that they just created a bunch of these issues by erasing the Teen Titans from history. The picking and choosing history thing just seems so bogus to me at least we had History of the DCU after Crisis.

  7. kingderella says:

    x-force SPOILERS ahead.

    the way archangel is written actually had me thinking that were going for a twist where ‘dark warren’ actually isnt evil at all, and the fight between him and x-force is actually just based on wrong presumptions on the side of the heroes. then archangel blows up an entire town. ok, i guess he is evil after all. it really made me go ‘woah’ for a moment.

  8. Robert Fuller says:

    Any Geoff Johns story dealing with time travel is going to be problematic. I enjoyed Flashpoint for what it was, but only because I went into it knowing it’s a Geoff Johns time travel story and is therefore not going to make a lick of sense.

  9. Paul O'Regan says:

    How many issues are left in this UXF Storyline? Four? It’ll be interesting to see where else they go with this story and how they bring back in the AoA characters, since we know Nightcrawler is joining the team.

  10. Steve P says:

    On the Gambit/Champions story: My guess is, it was commissioned as a Champions one-shot, either to tease a possible relaunch of the book — or more likely, just to hang onto the trademark. (Which they did end up losing.) Gambit’s probably in there just because he happened to be popular at the time.

    As for Justice League, I notice that issue #2 is now scheduled for the third week in October, which doesn’t bode well for the notion that Lee has already had time to complete the story.

  11. Paul says:

    I think Dark Angel Saga is a seven parter, so we’re about halfway through.

  12. thomas says:

    if Justice league slips from monthly shipping that is an embarrasment in my opinion. I also wonder if this mystery woman being inserted into all 52 books isn’t the saftey to go back to the way things were.

  13. Thom says:

    I thought part of the problem with Justice League was that of a fairly brief comic we’d already read the first quarter in previews, which made the remaining eighteen pages even less satisfying…

    I tried to explain the New 52 to a non-comics reader who’s put off by the weight of current continuity, and frankly the pick-and-mix approach of this relaunch seemed to be more confusing than a decent jumping-on point and a scan of Wikipedia would have been.

  14. Adam says:

    I’m not particularly irked if Barry, a characters whose previous long career came to an end in when I was 2 or so, learned his lessons about time travel previously in stories from the 70s or whatever. And time travel stories in general don’t make much sense, any more than time travel itself does, science-wise… though yeah, if Johns flags up the fact there were multiple attacks on the continuum, that seems to be something he let slip through the cracks (unless the Mystery Woman was involved, which would be a horrible idea).

    In so far as Zoom having no reason to be around: hey, he came to gloat. That can be a very real human motivation.

    Paul and one of the commenters make an excellent point on the timing of FLASHPOINT’s release, and JUSTICE LEAGUE’s. Releasing JUSTICE LEAGUE weekly to lure people who enjoyed it back in for the other #1s would’ve been a great idea. Why don’t the people DC pays to think of things like this ever come up with a sales strategy half as good?

    But enough: forget the DC stuff.

    I just have to comment that UXF 14 is the first comic since my return to reading them that’s made me ‘geek out’. Oh, I’ve been entertained by quite a few, including most issues of UXF, but this is the first one that’s made feel like a kid again, going, “Coooool!”

    For all the reasons Paul mentions, Archangel’s awesome (how about that Apoc-hybrid redesign?), and the introduction of the MU version of Nemesis/Holocaust (always wondered why nobody had shown him) is also a real high point. I love how his MU armor is sort of ENTERPRISE-level tech as opposed to the AOA version’s STARTREK-level, and making him an intimidated, awkward youth is a lovely juxtaposition with his Walking Death Machine image.

    The news that AOA Nightcrawler will be joining the team – and what a perfect fit that particular character is for the book, huh? – only has me more excited.

    Finally, an issue of a superhero series that makes me say, “I can’t wait for the next!”

  15. Brian says:

    @Zach – I’m guessing all of that business with “It’s bad to change the past.” in Flashpoint was DC setting up an emergency exit to be used in case the relaunch fails and they decide to restore previous continuity.

  16. Niall says:

    To be fair, I think that Barry’s alteration of the timeline was not a standard alteration. He didn’t change the timeline. His, to quote Zoom, “amateur” attempt to change the timeline broke it. The timeline shattered in all directions.

    DC screwed up royally with their relaunch, or rather with the opportunity it provided. They had an opportunity to write and ending for the DC universe. Imagine the kind of sales they have seen if they’d written an in-continuity “The End” saga for each of the major characters and teams. The major complaint of the average reader is that nothing changes and nothing sticks. They had a chance to write books where the stakes were high, and where for the first time in decades, the average cliffhanger actually had some sort of gravity to it. Instead, writers were given a couple of issues to abort the stories they were telling and at the same time to give some sense of closure to their characters’ arcs.

    The amount of time they could have taken to write those “The End” titles would given them plenty of lead in time for the new books. Something like Justice League or Action Comics could have been released weekly after launch.

    I’m enjoying Uncanny X-Force, but have to wonder how they’re going to excuse the absence of the X-Men proper. They should really notice the absence of that town Nemesis just destroyed.

  17. Robert Fuller says:

    “And time travel stories in general don’t make much sense, any more than time travel itself does, science-wise.”

    By that reasoning, no superhero story makes any sense. Or any sci-fi or fantasy story, for that matter. But there has to be an internal logic, which the good time travel stories have, and therefore they make sense on their own terms. Geoff Johns just doesn’t get time travel at all, and always makes extreme leaps in logic that defy explanation (see also his run on Booster Gold and his recent work on The Flash).

  18. Brian says:

    Given what DC’s trying to accomplish here, JL #1 desperately needed to feature an already-formed League featuring the full cast of characters. That’s the way they did it in the League’s very first appearance back in Brave & the Bold #28 (1960), and that’s what needed to happen here. The origin of the League wasn’t actually told until two years later in JLA #9.

    I think DC really should have approached JL #1 as if it were the “pilot episode” for a possible ongoing series, but one that would only be picked up if the pilot was well received. Had they come it from that angle, they might have turned out a story that introduced the entire cast and explained the premise.

    Anyone here ever read Alpha Flight #1? I mean the first one. From 1983 by John Byrne. Certainly not a classic story by any means, but on a purely technical level it’s perfect. It does everything a first issue needs to do. Same goes for Busiek and Bagley’s Thunderbolts #1 in 1997.

  19. Thomas says:

    According to Grant Morrison in an interview, DiDio and Lee started assigning these 52 titles to writers six months ago.

    As with so many other ‘what you know is WRONG!’ moves the DiDio DCU has been forcing on us, it seems that the DiCk Nu was decided upon on the spur of the moment when the Flashpoint pages started coming in, was bulled through to completion, and has not been thought through at all. I seriously doubt that this JL #1 was a Secret Origin mini…I would buy that it started out as an Earth-One graphic novel somehow gangpressed and retrofitted into being the spearhead of this messed up movement…

  20. Niall says:

    Those Earth 1 books seem pretty redundant now.

  21. DanielT says:

    “As for Justice League, I notice that issue #2 is now scheduled for the third week in October, which doesn’t bode well for the notion that Lee has already had time to complete the story.”

    Justice League is intended to be a third week of the month book. If you look at the 9/21 shipping titles you’ll see there are only 12 instead of 13.

  22. Suzene says:

    @Brian – Here on the Alpha Flight #1. Yeah, Byrne did really good done-in-one that introduced a fairly large team and got across motivations, action, and personality snapshots without getting bogged down (though, in fairness, I believe Byrne had more pages to work with than the JL creative team did).

    I’m passingly familiar with the DCU, and I didn’t think JL#1 was bad as a basic superhero comic, but as a bold new direction, not so sure. It didn’t knock my socks off — it didn’t make me want to drop more money on the next installment.

  23. ZZZ says:

    When I heard they were rebooting Justice League, my first thought was “please don’t let it open with another excruciating written-for-the-trade team-building arc introducing the characters one-by-one” (and I hate having to think that many hyphens). Oh well. At least they aren’t sitting around a table looking at photos again.

    I know that “decompressed” storytelling is still in the vogue, but considering that we already know who’s joining the team – they’re all on the cover so even the most spoiler-averse reader is going to know – and they’re all long-standing well-known characters, it seems extra pointless to drag it out. It reminds me of one of my biggest pet peeves with anime series based on manga: opening credits that show the entire cast of characters from the comic even though several of them won’t even be introduced until next season. Kind of like breaking the entire original Star Wars trilogy down into 20-minute-long TV episodes and showing Lando Calrissian among the good guys from the very beginning in the cedits.

    Considering that the book starts with a “five years ago” caption, it really seems to me like they missed an opportunity to show the entire team in the first issue by just starting with a simple “present day” (or “four tears ago,” or whatever) scene with the entire team, and THEN flash back to five years ago to show how they came together.

  24. Brian says:

    @Suzene – You’re right, Byrne had a double-sized issue to work with. Even still, DC should have followed that model. At least feature the entire cast and give a brief explanation as to why these heroes are working together. You can certainly do that within 24 pages, and other things besides. It didn’t need to be an entirely self-contained story (as Paul said on the podcast) nor did it need to be a masterpiece, but it did need to say “HERE is your cast, and THIS is what this series about.” In one issue. It needed that. It was a very important first issue for DC.

    New readers bought themselves a book called “Justice LEAGUE” and got two superheroes in action with only a glimpse of a third (Superman), and a fourth (Cyborg) who isn’t a superhero at this point. Tolerable for readers like us, but I can certainly imagine new readers feeling utterly disappointed and ripped off.

    I’m trying to think of something analogous to this in television. Imagine the pilot episode of “Lost” featuring only 3 of the main characters, and taking place entirely at the airport before they even reach the island.

  25. Andy says:

    Funny – I see several folks say that the approach in JLA #1 would never fly as a TV pilot. And yet when I read it, the very first thing it made me think of was “Heroes”. That show spent much of the first season introducing its characters and bringing them all together. And yet it was very well received and had a decent popular following (I’m talking about just season one).

    Now, I think it is still a reasonable question to wonder if that approach will work with characters as iconic as Batman and Superman. But in general, I don’t think the approach itself is unworkable.

    (As for “Lost”, if you take a look at the entire 6 season story, then the pilot episode actually did only feature about half of the central characters.)

  26. Andy says:

    “And time travel stories in general don’t make much sense, any more than time travel itself does, science-wise”

    @Adam – If the observation is “there are more bad, nonsensical time travel stories than good ones,” then point taken. If the observation is “time travel is inherently nonsensical,” then I humbly offer several counter examples. I think the movie “Timecrimes” is probably as close to a logically coherent time travel story as one can get, even if scientifically it relies on what amounts to a magic box. The movie “Frequency” is probably the most scientifically plausible time travel story, since it is only information which travels through time. And in the world of comics, the time travel story that ran through the 40s of the current X-Factor volume hung together fairly well for me.

  27. Brian says:

    “As for “Lost”, if you take a look at the entire 6 season story, then the pilot episode actually did only feature about half of the central characters”

    Wow. Andy, if I were actually making the argument that a good first issue of a comic book series or a good first episode of a television series needs to include EVERY main character to ever appear in said series throughout it’s duration (something that would require a writer with psychic powers), then I wouldn’t have already made the argument that I felt Byrne’s Alpha Flight #1 was a technically good first issue (which I already did). After all, Byrne failed to include characters that wouldn’t be introduced until years later.

  28. Dan Coyle says:

    Honestly, the Gambit Vault issue was solicited, I assumed it was an inventory from Lobdell’s aborted Gambit run- he took over the series from Nicieza in 2001 with issue #25 but didn’t come back after the hideous Gambit and Bishop miniseries. Lobdell was a big fan of Tuska (He had him draw a story in a Wildcats one-shot).

    The basic plot beats sound like a Lobdell Gambit story. But apparently it’s not his plot. But it feels like his plot anyway.

  29. wwk5d says:

    If only Joss would apologize for seasons 6 and 7 as well…

    UXF, along with X-factor and Legacy, are probably my favorite X-titles these days.

    As for DC…I give up. Too many re-boots, continuity mash-ups and re-writes…I might have more faith if I knew this ‘new’ continuity will last, but I give it 2 years at the most.

  30. deworde says:

    @wwk5d:
    Joss did apologise for Season 6. There’s that brilliant bit at the end of 6 where Buffy’s telling Giles all the terrible things that have happened since he left, and Giles just CRACKS THE HELL UP.

    And Season 7 was awesome. It had Nathan Fillion as a preacher who rips eyes out.

  31. AndyD says:

    “If only Joss would apologize for seasons 6 and 7 as well…”

    🙂 Yeah, he really should.
    But this always happen on series where the creator is spreading too thin or throws the towel and the not as good second tier takes over.

    Angel& Faith looks quite okay. Nobody expects really outstanding art on such books – the last interesting artwork which comes to mind was Ryan Sook on the Spike&Dru comics years ago – but sometimes they are not even trying. I was interested in some of the Angel and Spike by IDW. But the art was so awful that I put it back on the shelf.

  32. LiamKav says:

    Good vs bad time-travel stories: This always makes me think of how the Star Trek writers treated time travel. It followed a certain amount of logic during TNG, but by the time Voyager was around the writers had just given up trying to make things make sense and just hand-waved “yeah, time travel be crazy, yo” at us.

  33. AndyD says:

    ” but by the time Voyager was around the writers had just given up trying to make things make sense and just hand-waved “yeah, time travel be crazy, yo” at us.”

    Oh yeah. They should have installed the reset-button on the bridge, would have saved the audience a lot of wasted time.

  34. wwk5d says:

    “Joss did apologise for Season 6. There’s that brilliant bit at the end of 6 where Buffy’s telling Giles all the terrible things that have happened since he left, and Giles just CRACKS THE HELL UP.

    And Season 7 was awesome. It had Nathan Fillion as a preacher who rips eyes out.”

    I guess we have different definitions of brilliant and apologizing. And awesome.

  35. Patrick H says:

    Paul’s review of JL #1 nicely sums up my feelings. I overall liked it more than I expected but wish there had been more. I think DC missed a chance to build some good will and/or excitement by not having this be a double-sized issue (dare I dream for the same price point?).

    Another thing I noticed is that the issue may have loosened up the timeline of the DCU a bit. While 5 years seems to be the time frame for them in public, there’s enough in this issue (GL’s history in Coast City and conflict with the Air Force, Vic’s dad studying them) to suggest that not only Batman has been operating for longer than the general public has been aware of them.

  36. Andy says:

    @Brian – OK, maybe I misunderstood your point, and maybe I overreached by including the entirety of “Lost”. The main issue is “Did JLA #1 show enough to get readers to come back for #2?” You say “no” because it didn’t setup the entire roster. That’s a perfectly reasonable stance, and may turn out to be correct. On the other hand, I say “yes” because it accomplished a lot of world building and introduced some mysteries to be explored.

    Now, I suppose there is also the question “Did JLA #1 show enough to get readers to come back for all the other #1s?” Clearly JLA #1 did little to help me know if I would want to pick up Wonder Woman #1, or Nightwing #1, or Stormwatch #1. On the other hand, that’s a lot to ask of any single comic. And by actually starting one of the stories they are trying to tell (and sell), I think DC provided a more accurate introduction to what they are about. Of course, it remains to be seen how that will play out, but I don’t think it was definitely a stumble out of the gate.

  37. Brian says:

    “On the other hand, I say “yes” because it accomplished a lot of world building and introduced some mysteries to be explored.”

    I don’t expect genuine newcomers to comics would really care too much about the mystery surrounding the alien that Batman and GL tussled with if they’ve already decided that these comic book thingies are a rip-off after having plunked down $3.99 for a fragment of a story featuring a fraction of a cast. This isn’t something someone like you or I are going to place as much importance on as a new reader might. Potential new readers are still trying to make determinations you and I have long since made. Perceived value, for one. As a seasoned reader, I know comic books can be far “meatier” than this issue was. Newcomers on the other hand, might be give the impression that this is what they’re always like. $3.99 a pop for slow-burn storytelling. Possibly having to plunk down twenty bucks over a period of five or six months just to get a complete story that might turn out to be crap. Of course, we’ve all been there, but this really isn’t the first impression newcomers need to be getting about comic books. Ideally, they shouldn’t feel as though they’ve been ripped off until they’re already hooked on the damned things like the rest of us. When it’s already too late.

  38. Adam says:

    If JUSTICE LEAGUE is like LOST, I hope the Parademon isn’t going to be like that damn polar bear…

  39. Jack says:

    JLA #1 sucked really bad. I’m actually surprised that the reaction I’m seeing here is “meh, it was sorta ok, but short” – most people I know that are long time DC readers despised it, for a number of reasons:

    1) The characterization was an utter mess: Hal Jordan was as retarded in All Star Batman & Robin; Superman “punch-first-ask-later” acts anything BUT how Superman should.

    2) Darkseid. We just had Final Crisis, that promised to get rid of him and the New Gods for a good while – knowing that he’ll be the villain for the first makes this seem like “same old shit, new coat of paint”.

    3) It’s not good. JLA is a franchise that’s had some really beloved runs – stuff like Morrisson’s run, the recent Justice miniseries by Alex Ross, the DC animated series; this is nowhere near as good as those.

    4) People are really tired of John’s storytelling, the backlash has been gaining momentum ever since Blackest Night.

  40. kelvingreen says:

    And in the world of comics, the time travel story that ran through the 40s of the current X-Factor volume hung together fairly well for me.

    I’d also nominate The Umbrella Academy: Dallas and Alan Moore’s “Chronocops” from 2000ad. Both good stories that benefit from internal consistency.

  41. Rob says:

    @Jack “We just had Final Crisis, that promised to get rid of him and the New Gods for a good while”

    Er, the last issue of Final Crisis came out 2 and a half years ago. While you could debate whether or not that counts as “a good while”, I don’t think you could really say we “just had” it!

  42. odessa steps magazine says:

    “4) People are really tired of John’s storytelling, the backlash has been gaining momentum ever since Blackest Night.”

    Spurgeon summed up jla 1 and johns’ style so accurately the other day “fan fiction death orgy.”

  43. wwk5d says:

    @odessa steps magazine

    is there link where we can read that?

  44. @Jack

    “1) The characterization was an utter mess: Hal Jordan was as retarded in All Star Batman & Robin; Superman “punch-first-ask-later” acts anything BUT how Superman should.”

    Um, I hate to tell you, Jack, but this was the “first appearance” of these characters. Reboot, remember? We don’t know how they “should” act. This is building them from the ground up. If you can’t handle that, and everything has to match your very specific idea of how these characters “should” be, you probably don’t enjoy comics very much in general.

  45. Andy Walsh says:

    “I don’t expect genuine newcomers to comics would really care too much about the mystery surrounding the alien that Batman and GL tussled with if they’ve already decided that these comic book thingies are a rip-off after having plunked down $3.99 for a fragment of a story featuring a fraction of a cast.”

    @Brian – But on what basis do they decide it’s a rip-off? If they truly are new readers, they have no way of knowing if this is a lot or a little comic story for their $3.99. If they enjoyed what they read and found the teases intriguing, might they not decide they thus got their money’s worth?

  46. odessa steps magazine says:

    @wwk5d

    http://Www.comicsreporter.com

  47. Alexofxen says:

    Haven’t commented in about two years here, but just thought I’d break the silence in regards to Andy Walsh’s comment about whether or not the reader would’ve felt they got their $3.99 worth. No they didn’t.
    I’ve been reading comics since I was 6 years old and I have to say that nearly ALL comics are just too damn expensive. Maybe its because I’ve got bills to pay but the only way I buy comics anymore is in trades, and often times only when their on sale (Books-A-Million, if any one lives near them, now does 50% off sales for their older trades, great deals to be found). I can spend $3.99 on JL 1 and read it for 20 minutes, maybe 20 very satisfying minutes, but I could also go to Target and pick up a DVD of a movie I really like (Big Trouble in Little China was on sale for only $5 and that has bonus features). So, I love comics as both a medium and an artform. I love super heroes and I love crime comics and autobiographical comics. But they are most certainly not a good value for their asking price and if I have trouble justifying the cost of picking one up I doubt the layman or new comer will find them worth it at all.
    I will however say that I am a big fan of Marvel’s Must Haves format (roughly three issues of comic for only $6), it’s just a shame they always leave you hanging by leaving out the last issue of whatever story their doing (they should continue on with the story as mini-trades, not as a bs incentive for you to buy that one last issue you need).

  48. Andy Walsh says:

    Clearly there are a lot of strong feelings about the price of individual comic issues. And that may very well keep away new readers, or prevent new readers from becoming old readers.

    On the other hand, entertainment value is very subjective and hard to quantify. (It may not compare favorably to DVDs in minutes per dollar, but what about music tracks at 3 minutes for $0.99?) And new readers may not have as strong a reaction to the cover price because they don’t have a history with comics buying.

    Mainly, I just think it’s not so clear cut that JLA #1 was a misfire for capturing new readers. It may have been, but I’m waiting to see the actual results.

  49. Zach says:

    Yeah I agree with Andy, as a long time comic reader I found JL #1 to be a bit too short and drawn out, and that it was decompressed storytelling at its worst, but I showed the book off to a couple of friends and they seemed to enjoy it (and neither of them are what you’d say comic-book readers). It’s obviously too early to tell as to whether this draws in new readers or not(my money is on in the long-run, it won’t.)

  50. wwk5d says:

    @Odessa

    Is there a specific link to that article? This a busy website that doesn’t seem to have a search feature…

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