The X-Axis – 7 February 2010
It’s a quiet week for the X-books, for a change. Just the three of them – Cable, Wolverine: Weapon X and one of those inexplicable Wolverine one-shots that keeps on coming for some reason. (And seriously, what’s the deal with those things? How many Wolverine fill-ins could anyone actually want in their collection?) Fortunately, there’s a fair amount of other stuff out too, so…
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season Eight #32 – This is the first part of “Twilight”, the storyline where we find out who the eponymous villain actually is. Or at least, that’s the theory. This is clearly meant to be a major storyline for the series, and they’ve brought in a big name writer accordingly, in Brad Meltzer. A weirder aspect is Dark Horse’s promotional campaign, which has already given away the ending – something that would have been a major surprise for a number of reasons. I suppose the idea was that lapsed readers would go out and buy the arc to find out how said revelation could possibly work. Anyway, after the last arc, Buffy has got full-blown superpowers, and Twilight is her arch-enemy in a supervillain mask. The Buffy cast being basically geeks, much of this first issue is given over to them testing her powers against Superman cliches, which is actually quite funny. More generally, I’m not entirely sold on the direction here. It certainly looks as if we’re going to get some sort of riff on superhero cliches, but I don’t quite see why that fits in this particular series. I admit that I’m curious to see where all this can be heading, but I suspect that’s more to do with the spoilers than with in this issue (which, by the way, still hasn’t actually reached the big revelation). As an issue in its own right, it’s fine – Meltzer has the voices of the characters down, and there’s a cute Kitty Pryde gag – but the “comic book” stuff can’t help but feel a little out of place and forced.
Cable #23 – Well, we’re in the home straight now. Just two issues to go before Cable and Hope get back to the present and the book ends. The set-up of this arc is that they’ve finally got hold of a time machine that can go backwards, but it’s a bit erratic and they’re bouncing back and forth either side of the present as they try and zero in on it. So we get scenes of them in the increasing recent past, interspersed with scenes in the decreasingly distant future as they make their way back through the last two years of stories, culminating this issue with a coda to the first arc. Structurally, it’s quite clever – while it’s been a bit of a slog to get to this point, I do like the way that the pace has picked up, and the past/future stuff gives the feel of a series collapsing in on itself. And there’s a lovely scene based on the idea that Hope has literally no clue how to drive. (“Straight? What’s straight on this circle thing?”) On the other hand, the New York of 2044 was a fairly generic dystopia the first time round, and that hasn’t really changed; that’s fine so long as it’s just a backdrop for Cable and Hope, but bringing back Sophie Pettit from the first arc doesn’t really have the weight it should. The art’s a bit bland too, though it gets the point across, and there are some nicely atmospheric panels during the car chase. Still, this arc has some momentum, which is the main thing that Cable has been missing over the last couple of years.
Cinderella: From Fabletown With Love #4 – Much as I love Shawn McManus’ art, and it’s excellent here, this series isn’t really clicking for me. The basic gimmick – Cinderella as a Fabletown secret agent – kind of gets lost, because the character really doesn’t have that much in common with the fairytale Cinderella, or at least that all gets overshadowed by the James Bond riff. Then we have a plot based on the harem members from the Arab fables spontaneously developing radical feminism after a brief trip to New York. There’s an interesting idea in there somewhere; you could do something about cross-cultural influences and so forth. But it’s played on such a simplistic level that it really falls flat; it comes across as one of those clumsy stories where everyone deep down really wants to be American and realises it when they set foot in Manhattan, and that doesn’t work.
Criminal: The Sinners #4 – Criminal is one of those books which is terribly difficult to review because it’s consistently excellent, but it’s consistently excellent in the same way that all the previous issues were consistently excellent. And that makes it hard to find anything in particular to seize on in an individual issue, which in turn means that you end up giving the same list of the book’s good qualities every month – that it’s a superlative noir book told with great economy and style from two creators who know how to make every element count.
Doom Patrol #7 – Um… well, this is a story where a bunch of characters from previous incarnations of the Doom Patrol, some of them completely unrelated, show up in subplots, apparently because Keith Giffen is about to embark on some grand project to try and tie together all the versions of the Doom Patrol. Which is fine if you’re a Doom Patrol continuity wonk, and, like I said last month, to some extent the team’s history is such a mess that it really needs a bit of explaining. But actually trying to make that the centre of your book and lay claim to all the conflicting Doom Patrols as a single heritage is tricky; there’s a risk of trying to find a common thread that simply isn’t there, or complicating the premise unnecessarily. It’s not like there was ever a grand plan behind the disparate versions of the Doom Patrol, beyond keeping a trademarked name alive, and this issue doesn’t really convince me that the subject offers fertile ground. This issue also has the final Metal Men back-up strip, which seems to be racing to reach some sort of conclusion, and isn’t entirely satisfactory. A sixteen-panel opening page is a bit of a giveaway, though in fairness they’re buying space for a couple of splash pages later on, and the creators are good enough to pull off this sort of highly condensed grid page. It’s fine as a story in its own right, but it’s not a finale (and, to be honest, doesn’t really read like it was intended to be – why introduce a new supporting character now?).
Echo #19 – In this issue, guns. Also, rainfall. After the big infodump a couple of issues back, the series has returned its focus to the cast being hunted down by mad and dangerous people, and also by slightly less mad but still quite dangerous people. But scenes like this show why Terry Moore is a cut above most storytellers; he has the subtlety of body language and pacing to make almost anything visually interesting, even if it’s just four silent panels of somebody drawing a gun and then walking into a convenience store. It’s the mastery of detail that makes this sort of sequence feel like a good use of space; lesser artists can’t pull this stuff off. And this is one of the reasons why I like Echo despite its admittedly rather daft conspiracy plot; it’s a monthly reminder of what can be done in an 18-page monthly thriller comic.
The Great Ten #4 – Tony Bedard and Scott McDaniel have set themselves a difficult task with the format for this series about the DC Universe’s official Chinese superheroes. There’s an over-reaching storyline about China coming under attack from guys claiming to be Chinese gods, and the Great Ten being sent to stop them. But each issue is also meant to be focussed on a seperate member of the team – some of them loyal party functionaries, some of them basically decent types trying to do their job and keep out of politics, a couple of potential dissidents. Presumably the idea is that the series should give us a whole range of modern Chinese characters and (like its villains) explore the variety that exists below the Communist veneer. But it also means that you get issues like this, where the Immortal Man-in-Darkness relates his origin story – or, really, just explains his gimmick – and then fires a few missiles at a baddie. Mind you, it does look beautiful.
Siege #2 – There are all sorts of problems with this comic. Norman Osborn is hopelessly undermotivated. The plot point about him invading Asgard without authority seems to have been completely dropped, so apparently we’re meant to believe that everybody was too embarrassed to try and countermand his orders. And while the Dark Avengers managed to take out Thor last issue, this time they are sorely vexed by Maria Hill, because this time the plot requires them to lose. Actually, that pretty much sums up my problem with Brian Bendis’ plotting; he needs the plot to get from A to B, and that’s fine, but he tends to gloss over the internal logic needed to get there. (For example, if the plot calls for Maria to rescue Thor from the Dark Avengers, at least have her outwit them or take advantage of their internal squabbling or something. Don’t just have her charge them with a bazooka.) That said, though, this is something of a guilty pleasure. The art’s great. Writing Asgardians keeps Bendis away from his usual dialogue tics. I’m glad that the story seems to be focussing on the (real) Avengers and Nick Fury rather than bringing in the entire Marvel Universe. And the bit with Sentry and Ares is certainly unexpected, even if it’s one of the less successful moments art-wise, and even if I hope it doesn’t stick. There are some really good moments in this book; I just wish the structure holding them together was a bit stronger.
Sweet Tooth #6 – Beginning a second storyline, as Gus settles in to his new “home”, and flashbacks finally fill us in on the background of Tommy Jeppard – a washed-up ice hockey player who finds himself cast in the role of antihero in Sweet Tooth‘s post-apocalypse because there’s literally nobody else left. There’s a fairly obvious direction for this character to go in (especially since it’s a pretty safe bet that he has to be reunited with Gus at some point), but that’s fine; this book works on atmosphere and on having believable characters in extraordinary circumstances, not because it’s particularly unpredictable. Jeff Lemire’s sketchy, slightly twisted artwork seems a little less at home in the pre-apocalypse flashback sequences, but it’s perfect for the main story with its battered and damaged characters.
Wolverine: Savage – This would be the random Wolverine one-shot I mentioned at the start. Just in case anyone hasn’t figured out yet that these are essentially Generic Wolverine, the thoroughly generic cover should help to bring the point home. It’s by J Scott Campbell, but in fairness to him, I’d guess this is probably what Marvel asked for. The actual story is an all-ages piece by Ryan Dunlavey and Richard Elson, in which Wolverine fights giant monsters to help rescue a missing sushi chef. Which is certainly different. And actually, it makes a pleasant change for one of these stories to just be a tongue-in-cheek superhero piece, since most of them seem to go for noir. Perhaps because it isn’t trying to hard to fit an established genre, this has a lot more individuality. Elson does a rather hefty Wolverine, but there’s some nice detail in there, and a particularly nice fish-chopping sequence. Colourist Veronica Gandini gives the book a nice, bright look too. It’s still ultimately a Wolverine fill-in story, but anyone mourning the demise of Wolverine: First Class might enjoy this.
Wolverine: Weapon X #10 – A self-contained issue, as Wolverine tries to figure out whether Melita Garner is technically his girlfriend or not, and gets advice from the likes of Jubilee and Rogue on the issue. It’s a fun story, simply because it gets to spend an issue having Wolverine try to dodge the topic. I’m not so sold on CP Smith’s art. This guy’s been around for a while, and his sickly colours and stylised panels are certainly inventive. I’m just not altogether sure they add to the story. His characters are rather stiff, and some of his tricksier panels are just distracting. It’s most notable with the scene at Mariko’s memorial, which suddenly throws in a panel of Melita looking sultry in extreme mock-Warhol close-up, completely at odds with the rest of the scene and with her dialogue in that panel. To be fair, a scene with Melita and Emma Frost meeting in a corridor at night is better (and it’s the only version of Utopia I’ve seen that actually makes it feel like something recently unearthed from the bottom of the ocean). But I still find his art more intriguing than enjoyable.
Paul, I think you should have mentioned how enjoyable the Wolverine: Weapon X issue was. Sure, the art may be whatever, but this was one of the most fun comic issue I’ve read in a long time, and you should have focused a little more on the positive than on the negative.
I enjoyed the Weapon X book quite a lot, too, and although the art was odd, I liked it.
The Siege issue was entertaining for like 5 minutes as long as you don’t stop to think about it too much. The best thing it has going for it is that at least it’ll all be over in 2 more months. (And though I doubt it’ll happen, I really, really hope that Sentry and Daken go with it – two characters that I’ve grown to hate over the last few months.)
One other thing – is there ever going to be any sort of payoff to Osborn’s “Cabal”? It was introduced coming out of Secret Invasion like it was going to be a big deal, but it fell apart almost immediately and really hasn’t had any impact on ANYTHING (short of getting Norman and Loki together, which hardly required a secret cabal of uber villains with no motivation to even speak to each other).
It seems like yet another thing that probably sounded great in Bendis’ head, but comes across as stupid, pointless, and underdeveloped on the page.
It was introduced coming out of Secret Invasion like it was going to be a big deal, but it fell apart almost immediately and really hasn’t had any impact on ANYTHING
Well, the is pretty much par for the course with Bendis’ Avengers writing. It’s been years of big ideas which were quickly dropped as the next big idea came along.
Except, of course, for the Hood and the Sentry. He keeps banging on about them.
Have they revealed yet who the supposedly big bad powerful guy that Norman was talking to in his closet in that ‘Cabal – One Shot’? Or are Marvel typically waiting until the window of interest gets closed, locked & boarded up before springing that surprise?
Onto far superior things and glad that you gave ‘Criminal’ a mention, it is absolutely fantastic and is always a satisfying read.
RE: Paul C
Supposedly, from what I’ve heard, the hint/reveal was in Dark Avengers #13.
Ooh, Richard Elson. Might actually pick that up. Must have missed that in the solicitations.
I would be surprised if the revelation turns out to be coherent. After all, the man Electro spoke to in New Avengers #1 turned out to be a Skrull pretending to be Elektra…
Bendis’s Avengers and event titles always seem more interested in setting up a new status quo rather than actually doing anything with said status quo.
Ah, the Hood. I knew there was a third character that I’m sick of and wish would just go away. And now that I think of it, there are a few more.
So, characters I’m sick of and wish would go away:
Sentry
Daken
The Hood
Red Hulk
Son of Hulk (both of them)
I am glad to see Volstagg getting some page time, though – he’s one of my all-time favorites of Marvel’s supporting characters.
@PPP
Thanks. Did a quick search on that issue and it sounded utter gibberish. Sentry is Galactus or God and The Void is the anti-Christ. And IF Norman was talking to The Void then I guess that makes it more powerful than Doom, Namor, Loki, The Hood & Emma Frost combined, hence his threatening them all to toe his line.
I guess that’s how Sentry was able to bring his wife back from the dead after the female Ultron killed her in the first arc of ‘Mighty Avengers’. (Has that ever been explained either?)
(And on a completely different note, they haven’t said how Spider-Woman got her powers back, since when she was meant to, it was a ruse to swap her out for a Skrull)
With some characters, especially Sentry, it seems less frustrating if you just make up your own stories about them. Bendis = Head + Brick Wall.
I enjoyed wolverine weapon x quite a bit, but i find the idea that a girl who must be in her mid to late teens by now, wearing the EXACT SAME CLOTHES she was wearing when she was 13 years old really weird and disturbing. Giving the scene with Jubilee some very strange undertones.
Siege:
I’m confused about your, “The plot point about him invading Asgard without authority seems to have been completely dropped” complaint. Ares figuring that out is the reason he turns on Norman.
And it wasn’t just Maria Hill who pulled off Thor’s rescue – it also involved Thor getting a second wind. It’s made very clear that she would have been killed in her attempt without Thor’s intervention. And honestly, I gotta say, it felt a little silly participating in such a Comic Book Nerd level of argument there.
The Hood sounds like another Prometheus – i.e.: another awesome Evil Twin concept tossed away like a used tissue.
//\Oo/\\
Paul, I’m a little curious about your response to Siege. I don’t deny your criticisms, in fact I agree with most of them, yet it comes across as if you are almost looking for reasons to dislike this series. Hardly the best work of Bendis and sure I will grant that it is replete with his standard problems but still it seems like a fun romp to me that you are almost nit picking. It makes me wonder if you have some objection to this story as a concept which you haven’t really put forward yet. Anyhing to that?
As an aside regarding the motivation for Osborn, it seems from the Dark Avengers lead in that the motivation is Loki’s and that Osborn is simply acting out his manipulation/control. Not an Osborn story, but a Loki one. Which fits quite well with his role as the classic Avengers antagonist from their literal beginnings. Although I have to admit, Bendis has certainly not made this readily apparent.
Mr. Aspmo,
Siege 1 showed that Obama (or guy who looks roughly like Obama who we view from behind and in the shadows) didn’t want Osborn launching the attack against Asgard. A tale’s main character using his giant pseudo-military against the president’s orders is a development one might expect to come back up at some point.
I’m confused about your, “The plot point about him invading Asgard without authority seems to have been completely dropped” complaint. Ares figuring that out is the reason he turns on Norman.
Errr…no. Ares initially thinks oki is running Asgard, and so he agrees to help Norman. In Siege #2, he learns this is a lie and turns on Norman as promised.
The relevant diakogue is in Siege #1, page 9.
NORMAN: And our intel, very good intel, says with absolute certainty that Thor’s brother —
ARES: Loki.
NORMAN: — has taken hold of Asgard. Itr is under the control of a madman and it shouldn’t even be here in the first place.
ARES: This is not the fight of mortal men.
NORMAN: Then why is Asgard here int he mortal world?
[panel of silence]
NORMAN: Ares, if not us, then who?
[silence]
ARES: If you are lying, I will cut your head off.
And then in Siege #2, no one says one word about Presidential authority. Ares leanrs from Heimdall that Balder is king of Asgard, and iimmediately turns on Loki.
Ares honestly doesn’t give a hang about legal authority, as shown over and over in his Dark Reign appearances. He’s loyal to Norman initially because he sees him as a superior warlord, and follows him here because he believes Asgard shouldn’t be under Loki’s rule. And when this turns out to be a lie of Norman’s, he turns on Norman.
The authorization was what Norman needed to sell the “mortal” Dark Avengers; Ares was on board — and more importantly, makes his threat referenced in #2 — two pages before Norman so much as sought authority to invade in #1.
The story couldn’t be plainer about all of this.
Sorry, hat should read “and immediately turns on Norman,” not “Loki.”
Anyway, Siege is rather poorly plotted to date. I’m still not entirely sure how to square Norman’s explicit distrust of Loki in other stories with his seemingly clueless going-along in this one, either.
Oh, that? Well, I wouldn’t expect to see the repercussions of that until, at least, after the initial salvo of the invasion has concluded, if not the end of the series. Events in the story are moving pretty fast at this point.
A more clearly worded version of my last sentence: events depicted in the story are occurring in rapid succession at this point.
Meaning, there wouldn’t be time yet for the President to do anything about Osborne’s actions – and, really, what would you expect him to do?
It’s effectively a large-scale supervillain attack, and traditionally, the U.S. government has no way of countering such a thing – that’s why the Avengers exist in the first place.
This is why it didn’t even occur to me that the “Obama” scene was what Paul was referring to.
I can agree with the cynicism about Siege – I’ve enjoyed it, but my gut says it will end up being all sizzle and no steak – but Osborn’s motivation seemed reasonable enough to me (allowing for insane villain definitions of “reasonable”). His entire job revolves around taking out superheroes and strongarming the remaining superhumans into doing his bidding, and here’s an entire magical city of legendarily heroic unregistered superhumans (who are technically illegal immigrants too). To Osborn, Asgard would seem like an Al Queda traning camp in the middle of the country. And this issue is really only the next few minutes after last issue; Cap getting all his people together so quickly seemed like a bigger stretch (to me) than having no further developments on the Osborn-as-political-loose-cannon angle.
SPOILER WARNING: As for Ares vs. the Sentry, technically the results of the fight can’t stick – Olympian gods are immortal, to the extent that both halves of Ares should still be alive (whether or not Bendis is aware of that I can’t vouch for, but that’s the way it worked in the original myths, and the Handbook to the Marvel Universe entries for Olympians always say something to the extent that only total disintegration on a molecular level could actually kill one, so any writer who wants to can bring Ares back even if Bendis doesn’t). Basically, the Olympian equivalent of death (barring some magic macguffin that the writers declare “able to kill even an immortal”) is being hauled bodily down to Hades and imprisoned. For what it’s worth Asgardians, on the other hand, can actually die.
“Anyway, Siege is rather poorly plotted to date. I’m still not entirely sure how to square Norman’s explicit distrust of Loki in other stories with his seemingly clueless going-along in this one, either.”
Check out that Seige: Cabal one-shot — he doesn’t trust Loki, but he believes they will both benefit from getting Asgard off U.S. soil. Osborn knows Loki’s constantly trying to manipulate him but doesn’t care, because he really does believe Asgard’s a threat and that taking that threat out will solidify his position of power.
Also he’s crazy and talks to a Goblin mask in the closet. So his judgment may be a bit off.
But the thing is that Asgard has been there ever since Norman came into power, and it hasn’t been addressed at all (as far as I’m aware) over the past year, nor has Thor been involved in Dark Reign or been classified as a threat of any kind by Norman . . . until Siege #1 (or its prelude, whatever book that was). A year’s gone by, and suddenly, “Oh, we should get rid of all those gods.”
That’s not a bad story concept in itself, but the problem is that it’s being played as the climax and payoff to a year of Dark Reign, when in actuality is has NOTHING to do with what’s occurred in Dark Reign up to this point.
Unless it’s been specified somewhere in story, I don’t think we need to assume it’s been a year in Marvel-time.
Also, I think we can all agree Osborne has managed to keep himself busy since coming into power (seems like every podcast includes some complaint about Osborne being in too many books) – it’s not like he’s been sitting around looking for something to do.
And considering all of the established personal grudges Osborne has(Spider-Man, Tony Stark, the New Avengers), Asgard probably wouldn’t be that high a priority for him.
I’m still trying to work out what has been so “dark” about Dark Reign. The Dark Avengers still seem to be fighting the normal villains that the original Avengers would fight and apart from putting a bomb in Luke Cage has Norman actually done anything that terrible? I was hoping for a year of heros afraid to show their head and Normy hunting them down ferociously but in reality he wasn’t that bad.
Dark Reign is definitely supposed to have been going on for less than a year “Marvel time.”
I wish I could remember more details, but there was a recent book that showed flashbacks of the big events of Dark Reign, and it gave a ludicrously short amount of time that’s supposed to have passed since Secret Invasion. I mean, like, the flashback to Osborn killing the Skrull queen said something like “five weeks ago” and the book was set not long before Siege.
I wish I could remember more details because right now I’m just some random idiot on the Internet saying “trust me…” but over in The Initiative, Tigra got pregnant during Secret Invasion and isn’t showing yet as of Siege, so it’s obviously supposed to have been less than three months or so.
The thing with SIEGE is that I have no problem with the basic idea, but I think it’s a badly constructed story. The individual plot holes are relatively minor, but they’re symptoms of what looks to be a general lack of attention to plot construction. Up to a point that’s okay because Bendis is more interested in the characters than the plot, but there does come a point where the plotting is so shaky that it can’t help but undermine the suspension of disbelief.
Weapon X: I kind-of-sort-of agree that I could have been more positive about the writing, but that review more or less reflects my experience of reading the thing. I can see that there’s an enjoyable story in there, but the art is just too much of a distraction to get into it.
David,
“Unless it’s been specified somewhere in story, I don’t think we need to assume it’s been a year in Marvel-time.”
Fair enough, certainly.
“Also, I think we can all agree Osborne has managed to keep himself busy since coming into power – it’s not like he’s been sitting around looking for something to do.”
But it’s not like he’s accomplished much either.
“And considering all of the established personal grudges Osborne has(Spider-Man, Tony Stark, the New Avengers), Asgard probably wouldn’t be that high a priority for him.”
Logically, sure, but we’re talking about dramatic fiction, in which Siege is billed as the climax and conclusion of the entire Dark Reign, and in order for a climax to be effective, you have to BUILD to it.
Now, I’m willing to concede that as crapfully as the Sentry’s been handled, the threat and stakes of the character have been logically built up to culminate in the character’s actions in Siege #2. That, at least, makes sense. As awful as it is, it’s a legitimate character arc.
But nothing else about Dark Reign has led to Siege. How did Dark Avengers foreshadow this? LeFay, the Utopia story, Molecule Man? What do they have to do with Siege? How about the Hood’s army of supervillains and their attack on the New Avengers? How about Dr. Voodoo? Doom? Namor? Emma Frost? How about The List, which was billed as a major turning point in Dark Reign? How do Daredevil, Punisher, Hulk, and the X-Men fit into Siege?
I think you get my point here.
As much as I enjoy Bendis’ writing (and I do), I’ve got to agree that this story has not been set up sufficiently. At the very least, there needed to be some event where Loki gets Norman personally offended by the Asgardians. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense that he’d go after them when so many things he cares about so much more are left hanging. For instance, Spider-Man has been basically untouched by this whole Dark Reign. How does that make any sense? It makes more sense to me that the climax would be going after Spider-Man, or going after Iron Man, or even going after Nick Fury, than going after Thor. So it’s a very artificial crossover.
Okay, you guys are moving the goal posts here.
Would it be impressive if the *entire* last year’s worth of mainline comics produced at Marvel (or even just the Avengers books) were one continuous, giant story building up to “Siege”? Sure. But should it be expected? No.
“Dark Reign” was not a storyline, it was a status quo. There were various stories that took place within that status quo, just like there are various, tenuously connected (if connected at all) stories told throughout any year at Marvel.
You’re holding this story up to standards of a structure it was never intended to have.
But Marvel ARE promoting Siege as the climax of years of storylines, which makes it fair game for such criticism. (To my mind, this is broadly the conclusion of a storyline spanning Civil War, Initiative an Dark Reign. By what possible standard Marvel regard it as a continuation of a storyline begun with Avengers: Disassembled, I have no clue.)
(Besides which, if SIEGE was intended to be viewed as completely freestanding, the criticism about Norman Osborn being woefully undermotivated would be even more forceful. There really is no discernible reason for him to be picking this fight with Asgard, even within the story’s tenuous internal logic.)
“To my mind, this is broadly the conclusion of a storyline spanning Civil War, Initiative an Dark Reign.”
“Broadly” being the operative word – and it would be an *underlying* storyline, if we’re going to define it as a storyline at all.
And I believe the reason they bring it back to “Avengers: Disassembled” is because that’s when the Avengers were first thrown into disarray, and this story is supposed to mark the endpoint of that disarray. Again, “broadly” is the operative word.
“Besides which, if SIEGE was intended to be viewed as completely freestanding, the criticism about Norman Osborn being woefully undermotivated would be even more forceful. There really is no discernible reason for him to be picking this fight with Asgard, even within the story’s tenuous internal logic.”
I think ZZZ made a convincing enough argument for Osborne’s motivation – it doesn’t need to be anything more than The Next Thing To Do in his continuing job as the guy who keeps superhumans under control (his current status quo). This particular Thing just happens to be the one in which he finally overreaches and is undone.
Aren’t most/all of the Asgardians currently living in Latveria anyway? They packed up and moved there a few months ago, and the big throwdown with Doom that leads to them leaving Latveria and (presumably) coming back to Asgard is currently underway over in Thor.
ZZZ,
Perhaps you are thinking of the latest Sentry/Void-centric Dark Avengers? I think the conversation where Osborn gets Sentry on-board (and orders cheeseburgers, etc.) was shown to have taken place 2 months ago?
As to the other discussion (and I hate to beat a dead horse here), Bendis has a habit of doing a long string of almost completely disconnected story arcs that never seem to play off of or build upon one another. Taken individually they seem like quite a big deal and a lot of time is devoted to them, but there is never, ever any payoff to any of it.
Take the reveal in that Illuminati miniseries, that Professor X, Doc Strange, etc., each have an Infinity Gem. Seems like a big deal on its own, and one might have expected that with Civil War on the horizon (with the Illuminati splintering and its various members fighting each other), it would have made sense for that to come back up. Indeed, if this wasn’t going to be touched upon during Civil War – and hasn’t been mentioned since – just what *was* the point of it? Or the miniseries itself? Or half of what Bendis ever does?
Bendis could have Galactus eat half the planet, and two issues later they’d go back to fighting the Wrecking Crew and never mention it again.
Actually, I think I get it. The Asguardians moved to Latveria quite a while ago (was it in THOR #600 ? Or even before that ?). Osborn didn’t bother with them before because they moved very early on in Dark Reign (obviously post-DARK AVENGERS #4 since Doom was in charge, but probably very soon after that). As far as he was concerned, they were now Doom and Loki’s problem.
But as of THOR #606, they’re now back in Oklahoma. Doom’s not around to check on them, and Loki basically admits to Osborn in SIEGE: CABAL that he’s lost most of his influence. So I can more or less buy Asguard as a “new” threat for SIEGE.
It’s become quite muddled as THOR got very late and #606 has been published at least one month too late, but that’s Marvel’s usual inept scheduling for you.
Oh, by the way, when did they turn Loki back into a man? There was a period there, just before I gave up on Marvel, where the classic villains (Loki, Ultron, etc) were all getting turned into women for some reason. I was dreading some kind of nasty misogynistic crossover with all the assembled Evil Women, but that doesn’t seem to have happened.
Oh, by the way, when did they turn Loki back into a man?
Loki turned back into a man in the pages of Thor. He only looked female because he was possessing Sif’s body.
And Osborn’s motivation for invading Asgard couldn’t be more half-assed. For fuck’s sake, they show him sitting alone in his room when his goblin mask starts talking to him and tells him to invade Asgard. As far as believable motives, that’s up there with “my neighbor’s dog told me to do it.”
“I think ZZZ made a convincing enough argument for Osborne’s motivation – it doesn’t need to be anything more than The Next Thing To Do in his continuing job as the guy who keeps superhumans under control (his current status quo). This particular Thing just happens to be the one in which he finally overreaches and is undone.”
From a purely logical point of view, that may hold some water.
But from a dramatic point of view, it’s crap.
“Take the reveal in that Illuminati miniseries, that Professor X, Doc Strange, etc., each have an Infinity Gem. Seems like a big deal on its own, and one might have expected that with Civil War on the horizon (with the Illuminati splintering and its various members fighting each other), it would have made sense for that to come back up. Indeed, if this wasn’t going to be touched upon during Civil War – and hasn’t been mentioned since – just what *was* the point of it? Or the miniseries itself? Or half of what Bendis ever does?”
Didn’t the mini come after Civil War? It was the Skrull issue that was related to the looming mega-crossover at that point.
The List I have more of a problem with. First of all, Punisher, Hulk, Daredevil and Spider-man could/should have just been regular issues of their monthlies. Actually, that’s what they were – particularly as Daredevil and Punisher were both part ones and Hulk was the middle of an arc (arcs only tangentially connected to Dark Reign).
Secondly, List: Avengers was supposedly the first, followed by the others, which means all those stories happened very shortly after Utopia and very soon before Siege. Somewhere in this timeframe Ronin managed to both have a spell in jail and also to help Cap in Reborn.
It would work well if it turned out Loki was throwing his voice into the Goblin mask or whatever to trigger the Norman invasion. Then you could have a scene where Osborn sees Spider-Man swinging by and he realises he hasn’t actually accomplished any of his original goals, the president’s firing him, and everyone hates him. Then it’s Goblin time.
Also, it would be a lesson to the powers that be, that big government is dangerous, you need mavericks out there doing their own thing, because there’s too many people like Loki, Hydra and ACORN who can take control otherwise.
Dave,
Ahh, indeed, you are correct, sir. My aplogies. It was Secret Invasion, and not Civil War, that the Illuminati miniseries appeared before. In that case, the setup might (should?) have been, “holy shit, did we just hand over the Gem of (whatever) to a Skrull?!”
Black Bolt had the Space Gem (teleport/super-speed and maybe grow/shrink), didn’t he?
And Si, Loki driving Osborn mad appears to be the point of the last scene of Dark Avengers #12.
Incidentally, the fact that we have a bunch of veteran comic book readers here who can’t figure out what the hell is going on in this story probably isn’t a good sign. Just how incoherent has the storytelling been here?
“Just how incoherent has the storytelling been here?”
It’s not incoherent so much as painfully inept.
Bendis hasn’t learned much about plotting since his House of M days, so essentially he’s trying to fit a story in which very little happens over 8 issues into a story in which very little happens over 4 issues. You’d think that would improve things (well, I guess you’re paying half the price for the same dreck?), but rather it only highlights the flaws that most people tend to overlook when they’re spread out over more issues.
It’s not that people don’t understand it. They just don’t understand why they’re supposed to care.
Aaron Probets said:
“I’m still trying to work out what has been so “dark” about Dark Reign. The Dark Avengers still seem to be fighting the normal villains that the original Avengers would fight and apart from putting a bomb in Luke Cage has Norman actually done anything that terrible?”
Well, if you believe what was said in Daredevil, Hell’s Kitchen became more lawless than the baddest days of Gotham City.
Either Daredevil #501 or 502 talks about how all the corrupt cops have been brought back on the job due to Osborn. The same cops have formed roving death squads that shoot first. The cops took over the drug trade in the city and the judges are Osborn’s cronies who do what they want with the legal system. The whole area was turned into a completely corrupt police/legal state.
The state the area is in is what drove Daredevil to start using the Hand after taking control of it.
And all the points written above is exactly why I’m dropping all these books after Seige. You had me, Marvel, and you blew it. I’m going to Manga.
Some good points about Siege. One wonders if Marvel will go back to have another go with the X-books now the big Avengers storyline is coming to an end.
You raised an interesting point in the podcast last week when you said it would have been a good idea for the Flash to be rested for several years to allow for accumulated interest in him to grow again, eg Thor.
Barry was essentially rested for more than 22 years and yet there just seemed to be an overwhelming sense of “who cares” from most fans or “why am I reading about Barry fucking Allen in the 21st century”. Is it simply a lack of interest in Barry or do you think the Flash concept as a whole should have been ditched?
Si:
I agree that Loki is making the mask talk. He’s taking advantage of Osborn’s instability by making Osborn think Loki’s ideas are coming from his own head.