The X-Axis – 13 May 2012
It’s a podcast weekend, so check out the show one post down, where Al and I are reviewing Trio, Dial H and Mind the Gap.
Meanwhile, over at the X-books, crossovers with the rest of the Marvel Universe continue to abound. This would normally have been a relatively quiet week (just four X-books) but the tie-ins get us up to six…
Journey into Mystery #637 – This is part 2 of the “Exiled” crossover which is running weekly through this book and New Mutants. In scheduling terms, it’s a little odd to see this coming out at the same time as the big “Avengers vs X-Men” event, which will inevitably overshadow it, but on the other hand it’s certainly preferable to seeing the New Mutants shoehorned into that storyline. After all, these two books have taken the trouble to establish some minor ties in the preceding months, so that this seems more organic than it otherwise might.
That being said, this remains principally a Journey into Mystery story, with some of the Asgardian gods being magically turned into ordinary humans living in San Francisco (or thinking they have been, at any rate). The New Mutants’ role here, thus far at least, is a bit more generic. They’re basically here to drive the plot along by pushing an investigation into what happened to the JiM regulars; and while it helps for these purposes that Dani is a Valkyrie, you could have swapped other characters into the same role without fundamentally changing things.
The basic set up of amnesiac Norse gods being reincarnated as ordinary humans has been done before, but this is a fun rendition of the concept. Loki ends up as an RPG player; Volstagg is a baker who’s too busy eating his products to actually sell any. And so on. The opening pages do a really good job of selling the idea of reality being rewritten, as the New Mutants are simply relocated in mid-conversation and initially don’t realise anything has changed – though for a change, the heroes pick up on it very quickly. And the reaction of Sigurd, who caused all this trouble, is perfectly pitched; as far as he’s concerned, there is no problem, and if Thor’s been slightly derailed from his heroic activities, oh well. Somebody will sort it out.
I’m still not altogether convinced that the New Mutants are needed for this story, but the team are well written here, and perhaps their role will become clearer as we go on. At any rate, it’s a good little piece of counter-programming for the summer event.
New Avengers #26 – Well, this is certainly odd. It’s an “Avengers vs X-Men” tie-in issue, but with no Avengers and no X-Men. Instead, for the second straight issue, this is a flashback story in which Iron Fist’s supporting cast attempt to train a young redhead girl who was apparently an earlier incarnation of a possible host for Phoenix. With no present-day content whatsoever, and its plot thread yet to surface in the main series at all, this is either a complete detour, or an interesting exercise in shunting the foreshadowing (and exposition) off to the tie-in books. I mean, it’s got to be heading somewhere, right? Uh… right? But they surely can’t just have Iron Fist wheel out an alternate host in Avengers vs X-Men #6 with a footnote saying “Go read New Avengers” – that’s not Marvel’s style when it comes to crossovers, where the tie-in books are usually superfluous. Could this just be a case of Bendis using the crossover as a vague pretext to do Untold Tales of the Phoenix? Might be. Stranger things have been known.
What it does have is some very good art by Mike Deodato, who’s doing some of his best work on this storyline. And if you have confidence that it really is going to feed back into the main story at some point (and that the whole thing is going to fit together in some passably satisfactory manner), there’s some plot material here worth speculating on. It’s so far out on a limb that I’m inclined to assume it must be part of some sort of plan, but heaven only knows what.
Uncanny X-Force #25 – The first part of a new storyline sees the team pretty much falling apart, as Psylocke (now artificially free from sorrow and therefore from any sort of guilt trip) walks out, and Fantomex then decides he has no need to be there either. And Deathlok… uh, whatever happened to Deathlok? Well, he’s gone, anyway. So that leaves Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Deadpool – who, the recap page helpfully informs me, is now powerless but normal-looking following the latest story over in his own title. Mind you, I don’t get the impression Psylocke and Fantomex are being written out for real.
Mike McKone is on art this issue, and a switch back to a crisper look is probably for the best. And there’s a lovely sci-fi concept at the heart of the story – custom-grown assassins with false memories who are motivated by vengeance, so that they’ll never switch sides just because somebody makes them a better offer. It’s a return to the sort of thing the book does best.
There’s only 20 pages of actual story here; the rest of the book is filled out with two reprints, presumably to celebrate 25 fabulous issues since the last time the numbers were arbitrarily reset. You’ve kind of got to take the numbering system a bit more seriously if you expect me to give a toss about issue #25, Marvel. The cover bills them as “2 rarely seen stories by Rick Remender and Jerome Opena”, which is a lovely euphemism for “obscure back-up strip”. In fairness, they do feature Remender and Opena’s first work on regular characters Wolverine and Deadpool, and therefore might actually be of interest to X-Force readers.
“Purity”, the Wolverine story, was a back-up story from the 2008 one-shot Wolverine: Dangerous Games (the one with the fox hunting). It’s pretty good, though its interpretation of Wolverine’s character is highly debatable; it’s basically going for the idea that Wolverine respects the idea of honour but is somewhat inconsistent about how far he actually tries to live by it himself. That’s a viable reading of the character, particularly in the context of X-Force, where the whole justification is meant to be that he does these things so that other people won’t have to. But the story ends on a note of Wolverine choosing to reject honour which, to my mind, rings false for the character, even though it’s a good ending to the individual story. “Appetite for Destruction” is from Deadpool #1000 and it’s basically over the top silliness which just about has the momentum to carry its nine pages. A little of that sort of thing goes a long way.
Wolverine #306 – Part 2 of Cullen Bunn’s Dr Rot sequel. Wolverine spends the issue tracking down Rot while the cops are (understandably enough) looking for Wolverine about all those murders he’s been committing under Rot’s control. Rot’s a difficult character to pull off because he’s so demented that the story has to be fairly off-kilter in the first place to accommodate him. This issue, I think Bunn and artist Paul Pelletier get it right; it’s over the top in a way that’s absurd but also disturbing. That’s the tone you need to set if Rot’s going to work; it’s not enough for him to just be a crazy guy, his lunacy has to infect the whole story around him. And here, it does. This is strong stuff, and I’m glad to hear that Bunn is apparently sticking around once the oh-god-must-we return-of-Sabretooth arc is out of the way.
Wolverine and the X-Men #10 – Another “Avengers vs X-Men” tie-in, and a rather more conventional one. Cyclops shows up at the school to try and enlist the assistance of the X-Men living there, which leaves Wolverine’s team to choose their side. And that’s basically the issue, though Aaron also throws in some subplot scenes to keep Genesis and Angel’s balls in the air. Several of the X-Men at the school do indeed choose to side with Cyclops, which is kind of essential if this is going to be “Avengers vs X-Men” – but it does give rise to a couple of problems of its own.
For one thing, it undermines the split between the two X-Men factions in a way that doesn’t seem organic, and I think it’s too early for that. For another, in giving their reasons for siding with Cyclops, several of the X-Men end up hanging a lampshade over major plot problems with the crossover itself. The whole story hinges on the idea that the Avengers (and Wolverine) believe that the arrival of the Phoenix is going to be disastrous. But given that the Phoenix has been to Earth several times before and no such thing has happened, they have no terribly obvious reason to believe that. So when Rachel Summers spells that out as her reason for siding with Cyclops, it makes sense for her character, but only because she’s calling attention to the fact that it doesn’t make sense for anyone else’s.
There’s also some wonky plotting here, as Avengers vs X-Men #3 treated it as a surprise that Rachel was siding with Scott. Here, she’s completely open about it, which makes Wolverine look like a blithering idiot for trusting her to locate Hope in the first place.
So, yeah. It’s basically a straight crossover-elaboration story done in this book’s style, but in a way that doesn’t quite do anyone any favours.
X-Men Legacy #266 – More “Avengers vs X-Men”, though this one takes place after issue #3 of the main series. There’s more side-choosing here, with characters deciding whether to go with Cyclops, or just to stay and look after the school. Rogue chooses to stay, and Christos Gage tries to make something of the fact that she has traumatic memories of her first fight with the Avengers. I appreciate the effort, but it’s hard to avoid the feeling that he’s casting around for an “Avengers vs X-Men” story that he can do with Rogue, and this was the best hook he could find.
Meanwhile, the Avengers D-list show up to stand around outside and keep an eye on the school, and you can imagine how well that goes. This is the better half of the story, as both sides initially try to act somewhat like grown-ups, only for Frenzy and Moon Knight to blow it. Some of this stuff is quite fun, but it still seems like a case of creators making the best of a crossover that the book doesn’t really want or need to be in.
It seems like there could be better AvX tie-in stories if the writers had collaborated earlier and compared notes on characters. Here, we have several plots that are more ‘fringe’ than they could be, as well as inconsistent character portrayal between titles.
I’m not reading any of this The Avengers Beat Up The X-Men nonsense, because, well I stopped buying any new Marvel Comics a while ago. I also think all the continuity that has had to be re-written, and personalities altered, to make it work, would make my head explode; it was that which made me give up Marvel after Civil War and Secret Invasion.
Still, I do pick up some Marvel collections from the library – just to keep my finger in the pie, or something – and read that Spider-Man & Wolverine team-up by Jason Aaron this weekend. I think it was because Paul recommended it, and it was a reasonably fun romp for the most part…..but, erm, Wolverine was a Phoenix host? And to stop himself destroying the Universe, he just told it to go away? So, why don’t the Avengers just offer up Wolvie to the Phoenix Force, and he can just tell it to go away (again). Those Astonishing comics were in continuity, right?
I haven’t been reading AvX or its tie-ins, but does it seem like the writers have completely different ideas of what is going on?
I did read promo scans of the first few pages of AvX #1, and those pages sounded like they were written in a universe where nothing happened with Phoenix after the end of the Dark Phoenix Saga. Because it didn’t make sense for everyone to start panicking over the thought of Phoenix showing up yet again. And it didn’t make sense for Wolverine to talk like Jean was dead because of Phoenix. (Because, of course, the original death was retconned so that Jean never died. And Jean is currently dead because of Magneto (or Xorn or whatever). Heck, didn’t Wolverine himself kill Jean before Magneto, with Phoenix inhabiting/reviving her body?)
The whole set-up in AvX just seemed wrong for any world where Phoenix kept popping up post Dark Phoenix saga.
And, of course, there was the whole muddled mess of the years of Hope lead-up to the story…
@ Billy
Even by Marvel Crossover standards, this one does seem a bit dis-jointed, more than usual.
Are they even referencing the Endsong and Warsong limited series?
I really liked WATXM #10. I feel like it (and the last Uncanny) do a much better job of the character moments and making me care about the crossover. AvX itself feels empty, like the characters are just pushed in the direction the writers want. But that conversation between Wolverine and Cyclops in WATXM, while not perfect, did feel pretty good.
I also really think that Schism is something that should’ve spun out of AvX instead of preceding it by a year – having Wolverine’s connections to both the X-Men and the Avengers help him see both sides, and dislike how Cyclops has taken “the Dream” and turned it into “Mutant Military” (which is so insular it’s willing to fight the Avengers) would make him leave and start his own school.
That New Avengers “tie-in” is really making me miss Immortal Iron-Fist! 🙁
@ Kenny
“It seems like there could be better AvX tie-in stories if the writers had collaborated earlier and compared notes on characters. Here, we have several plots that are more ‘fringe’ than they could be, as well as inconsistent character portrayal between titles.”
Agreed. Rachel’s moment of explaining her past connection to the Phoenix almost felt like a shout out to readers who are paying attention to this stuff, did anyone else get that impression? Almost as if they knew the main series wasn’t going to give it any mention (which is quite obvious already) so the writer just took it upon himself. As much as I couldn’t stand Claremont’s “X-Treme X-Men” or his most recent run on Uncanny, I give him credit because he often did the same thing. Morrison or whoever was writing the big flagship books at the time would just do whatever they wanted to do, and Claremont’s little side books would actually have characters stop to comment on recent events and attempt to tie the universe together. The man has some bad habits and wonky ideas but he sure tried his hardest to make sense out of other writers’ indifference.
@ Matt C.
“I also really think that Schism is something that should’ve spun out of AvX instead of preceding it by a year”
No kidding, especially since Cyclops is showing up looking for recruits. That’s what Schism was about; everyone’s picked their sides already and the team was split down the middle. Now we’re doing it again mere months later? I also feel the inevitable meeting of the two teams should have happened far later. Remember how cool it was to have Xavier return and the teams to reunite around the Muir Island Saga? It had been so long that it felt like coming home again. This could have been just as impactful if they had shown some restraint (and not thought up this cruddy crossover).
It’s not such a big thing in-universe for the two X-Men groups to be re-evaluating their sides already. The thought processes would be along the lines of “I don’t agree with child soldiers, but I do agree with punching Tigra”.
As a comic of course, the decision is absolutely asinine.
The problem with the suggestion that people shouldn’t be too concerned with the Phoenix’s return is that the set-up for the series, all the way back to that terrible Marvel Point One book, is that the Phoenix is suddenly “badder,” rampaging through the galaxy and killing billions of people. Which, fair enough, does make the issue a bit more pressing than just wondering who the new host is going to be.
But if you put it in that context – and this isn’t heresay, the Avengers have hard evidence that the Phoenix is destroying planets left and right – than the X-Men’s stance becomes simply untenable.
The conversation becomes: “The Phoenix is going to do something vague and positive to improve the lot of mutants on Earth!” “Be that as it may, we have proof that the Phoenix has destroyed a number of other inhabited worlds on its way here and we can’t gamble with the lives of every person on the planet.” “Very well, you’re completely right, and for the sake of the 7 billion people on Earth we’ll team up to deal with the immediate threat posed by an out-of-control and hostless Phoenix force.”
See, there’s AvX without the v.
Anyone else notice this is the third story that starts off with Deadpool trying to do things the sneaky way and getting captured, necessitating the deployment of the rest of X-Force? The first time was the first issue. The second time was last issue. And now here we are again. 🙂 I really think it’s time they find someone better-suited to the job. AOA Nightcrawler seems the type who can keep his mouth shut.
McKone’s a huge improvement. Still not quite the artist we need, I feel, but I can live with him. I really hope this is the start of good times for this title again. There was no bigger cheerleader for this title than me coming off the Dark Angel Saga.
“I really think that SCHISM is something that should have spun out of AVX”
That would’ve made SO much more sense that there’s a bruise on my forehead now. You’re brilliant.
But I did enjoy WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN 10; Aaron’s enough in the zone with that title to where he can make even an AVX crossover issue worth reading, and the Shi’ar response to Phoenix’s approach strikes me as perfect material to mine off to the side of the main story, esp. since we have Shi’ar cast members.
What’s really starting to bother me about AvX is that it’s becoming clear that no effort is being made to keep the tie-ins consistent. The first indication was when we saw Red Hulk giving the Avengers a pep talk as they poured out of the Helicarrier, only to discover that they apparently piled back in so Magneto could throw Colossus at them.
Then we have Storm chewing Black Panther out for not telling her about the Avengers plans even though she was at the meeting where he found out about those plans and walked out.
Then Vs gives us the epic battle between Iron Man, Magneto, and Quicksilver without Quicksilver and the epic battle between Namor, the Thing and Luke Cage without Luke Cage.
Then Avengers Academy has Cap and Hawkeye showing up at the Academy to tell Hank Pym about the battle he was just in.
And now, compare WatXM and Legacy and try to reconcile them: apparently Wolverine got back to the school (his powers having had time to only partially regenerate his uniform) and explained the battle to Kitty. Scott and Emma then showed up and made their case to the faculty who all weighed in on their position, after which Iceman and Rachel left to help the X-Men … then, apparently, circled the school, came back, and headed inside so Kitty could brief everyone on the situation again and they could all restate their position and Rachel and Bobby could leave again.
Just try to track Wolverine through the whole thing: He gets his uniform burned off at Utopia, then arrives at Avengers Academy with an intact uniform, which is in tatters by the time he makes it to the Jean Grey school, where he gets the call to go to Avengers Tower and arrives there with an intact uniform. I can buy that he has spare uniforms, but how did it get shredded between Avengers Academy and the Jean Grey School?
“but how did it get shredded between Avengers Academy and the Jean Grey School?”
Fleas. When Wolverine scratches himself, you better believe he scratches.
A♥X it is such an amazing fiasco. I just hope they can keep this up, and make it a complete trainwreck from start to finish.
Wow… this x-over is sounding really bad. I was looking forward to it, too. It makes me long for the if destroyed days when Paul would do storyline wrap ups.
Please, Paul, do a full AvX wrap up post when it’s all said and done.
Remember the Avengers in “The Crossing”? AvX seems to have already amassed more continuity errors that that!
I always got the impression that the reason it’s such a big deal this time is because it’s coming for Hope, and Hope has been portrayed as somewhat unstable. It’s seemed as though Cyclops has been riding the lion with her, so to speak – he can’t hold on, but he can’t let go either. So now that the Phoenix is getting added to the mix, people are freaking out a bit.
I think “unstable” is a very kind description of Hope up to this point. Cyclops is hoping that a cosmic entity whose ultimate power levels are still largely unknown — and which is already wiping out planetary populations just trying to get to earth — is heading their way to take control of a traumatized teenager whose response to dissension among her own team was to crater their free will. Even if she can control the Phoenix, even if it doesn’t treat the sun like an entree, and even if it does restore the X-gene, giving ultimate power to an unapologetically manipulative kid with a martial mindset still sounds like a horrible plan.
Random thought but there’s one swerve I really enjoyed in recent comics and that’s when Sinestro got the white lantern power instead of Hal.
Kind of hope the Phoenix goes into someone else and not Hope…Magneto…would absolve anyone else from making the ‘No More Avengers’ shout we know is coming.
Wait. No one else thinks that the last panel of the main story in X-Force looks like Wolverine has a tentacle up his butt that’s making him fat?
When I read the previous page, I wondering why they weren’t showing how the tendril is getting into his liver. Was it going up his back door? But that would be silly. Then I turned the page and sure enough, it seems to be. And it’s inflating him like a parade float.
The issue had been serious angsty soap opera, and then suddenly it reads like Mark Millar writing a Deadpool title.
In Wolverine vs. the X-men, Iceman comments that he wants to protect the Phoenix so he can save Hope, the way he couldn’t save Jean. I can just hear Jean spinning in her grave at this prospect.
@ Nitz
And how exactly did Iceman not save Jean? Once again, I have no idea which of Jean’s deaths they’re talking about, and it reads an awful lot like they’re counting the Dark Phoenix Saga as the only one that happened. But even then, Iceman wasn’t on the moon when Phoenix died, nor was he present in Planet X when Jean died the last time. The only time he was actually present was when she was thought dead in the Sentinel attack in Uncanny #281.
This crossover makes no sense.
@Jacob: From the beginning I’ve been half assuming the Phoenix was going to end up going to the Scarlet Witch because (1) Cliche Writing 101 demands that if that many characters are assuming something is going to happen (Pheonix going to Hope), that thing canNOT happen and (2) we know Wanda’s going to be a major factor in AvX but she hasn’t done anything else so far, and (3) the recap pages keep saying the Phoenix “appears to be” coming for Hope of that the Avengers “fear” it’s coming for her, which is code for “we want you to think it is but it’s not.” By this point, though, Hope has manifested to many Phoenix bursts that I’ll be really disappointed if she’s just a red-headed herring. I’m really starting to hope Wanda’s part will just be saying “No more Phoenix” at the end.
@Karl Hiller: I thought the same thing about X-Force, but if you look closely, there are two tendrils leading from the woman to Wolverine, and the ends of both tendrils are curling around in front of him, so I think they’re just supposed to be wrapped around him. But it’s also possible to interpret that image as a tendril going in his backside and coming out through his stomach or something, then wrapping around in front. It might be one of those things where the artist drew it so that he could claim it was just wrapped around Wolverine but if you want to assume it’s going in the backdoor, that’s fine too. I do think the Omega Clan woman’s tendrils are supposed to be making him fat, though, because the other Omege Clan member’s tentacles appear to be making Nightcrawler older. I’m guessing each has a different body alteration power.
@DanLichtenberg: Bobby was referring to not being there when Jean died. Like “If I’d been there maybe I could have done something, so this time I AM going to be there.”
@ZZZ
“Bobby was referring to not being there when Jean died.”
Gotcha. Still, seems like a strange thing for him to say, somehow. I’m not even sure why. I’m probably just looking for problems at this point, so you’ll have to excuse me.
As for the Phoenix choosing Scarlet Witch, man, poor girl is never going to be able to climb out of this hole, is she? I’m a man who doesn’t usually concern himself with feminist thinking, but I still shake my head at the fact that female characters are constantly being turned into possessed, crazy ass destroyers of worlds to gain any relevance. The only alternative (beyond fridging them, which is usually how the crazy / possessed stories end) is to make them sarcastic, snarky little know-it-alls and surround them with dumb male characters. I’m not blaming any of the recent Marvel stories because this has been going on forever, but when people go on about wanting comics to be seen a serious art form, well, stuff like this doesn’t help. Sorry for getting off topic.
@Jacob
Does anyone actually expect Hope to end up with the Phoenix Force? The whole arc screams “swerve!” The X-Men and Avengers are going to beat each other up over Hope, Hope might show some Phoenix abilities (because of her copying power), and then the Phoenix Force will pick someone else, while everyone stands around with egg on their faces, before having to work together.
The only question is who will actually end up with the power. Quentin Quire was an obvious choice bouncing into Schism’s storyline, but others are saying Scarlet Witch for all her screwed up history. Of course there is also the chance of a completely new character being created (or no character at all.)
I don’t see Scarlet Witch getting the Phoenix Force, but I do think she’s there as the only heavy-hitter that’ll be able to stand up to her once the Phoenix touches down. This storyline could well be her big redemption; it would take this scale of a save to make everyone forgive her.
The swerve might be the long-delayed ressurection of Jean. They’ve been talking about it on and off since Messiah Complex.
” And how exactly did Iceman not save Jean? Once again, I have no idea which of Jean’s deaths they’re talking about, and it reads an awful lot like they’re counting the Dark Phoenix Saga as the only one that happened. But even then, Iceman wasn’t on the moon when Phoenix died, nor was he present in Planet X when Jean died the last time. The only time he was actually present was when she was thought dead in the Sentinel attack in Uncanny #281. ”
I agree that it’s a ridiculous statement, though not because Bobby misses Jean– they were close friends, and they were among the original X-Men so they’d been through a lot together. What I mean is that it’s asinine that he’s willing to risk the entire planet (which is inhabited by mutants as well as humans, mind you) so he can help Hope and lessen his guilt at not being there either time. Jean wouldn’t want such reckless endangerment in her name.
“The swerve might be the long-delayed ressurection of Jean. They’ve been talking about it on and off since Messiah Complex.”
I kind of thought that was the entire point of Hope, but I’m continually being proven wrong as this story continues to go nowhere. She was made to look like Jean from the get go (which was either a red herring or Marvel letting the cat out of the bag before they knew what they were actually going to do with any of this) and when the next story was titled Second Coming, I figured, you know, that it would be Jean’s second coming. What was it the second coming of, anyway? Mutants? Like the five lights?
And about Hope, kind of an odd question here, but story wise is she actually supposed to look just like Jean or is she just a redhead? I always had this problem with Madelyne too. Artist interpretation aside, she was revealed to be a clone which meant she looked EXACTLY like Jean. And remember, she was originally supposed to be a normal woman who just looked like Jean, no clone stuff (not sure where Claremont was going with that or why). I know Cyclops and everyone else thought it was unusual, but I would think it would be a little more than unusual if I met a woman who was an exact replica of my dead wife. I would probably use my X-Men resources and go to the ends of the Earth to find out just what the hell was going on. So my question then, is Hope supposed to be a replica of Jean, only a little younger? Have the characters ever addressed this? If so, then they should probably be a little more concerned. If not, then why has Marvel gone to such lengths to suggest that there’s a connection or similarity between the two?
@DanLichtenberg
I could be misremembering, but I believe “Second Coming” was just a reference to Hope (and Cable) returning from the future. The “first coming” being the Messiah Complex storyline that ended with Cable taking infant Hope into the future.
I don’t THINK Hope is supposed to look like a teenage Jean, simply because I don’t remember anyone mentioning it even though they’ve commented on the red hair several times, but I could be wrong. It’s possible that the writers have just forgotten that there are people who’ve interacted with Hope who would know what Jean looked like at her age (or they never thought about it). Facial recognition has always been kind of abstract in comics: one person puts on a domino mask and no one can recognize them, but then someone looks at X-23 and can immediately tell she’s a clone of Wolverine.
I recently went on a rant about a related issue on another site*, mentioning the Madelyne Pryor thing: not only was she supposed to be identical to Jean, but she was the only survivor of a plane crash that happened at the exact moment Phoenix died on the moon, walked away from the crash without a scratch, was unreadable to Xavier, and (if I’m remembering correctly) had no memory of her life before the crash. And the X-Men (and the readers) were supposed to accept that it was all just a coincidence.
*(Specifically, my rant was about a New Avengers issue where Hawkeye goes looking for the Scarlet Witch and finds an amnesiac Wanda who was drawn so off model that it was never clear whether he was supposed to have found the actual Wanda or not. Hilariously, it was later retconned to be a Doombot, so I guess Doom just made a really crappy likeness)
I believe Madelyne Prior was going to be a woman who looked a bit like Jean Grey, and Mastermind, returned from his vegetative state, manipulated people’s perceptions as some kind of elaborate revenge scheme as the X-Men would be forced to kill an out-of-control Phoenix who in reality was just some poor random powerless (Grey-like) face on the street. Of course they’d realise what was going on in a nick of time and rescue her, she’d fall in love with Cyclops, and he’d leave the comic.
Instead we got a skeevy story about Cyclops lusting after a girl because she looked like his ex. And then every time they returned to Cyclops, they managed to make the story several degrees skeevier.
@ZZZ
Yes, Madelyne was just a strange character, no two ways about it. I swear I remember reading that Claremont’s original plan for her was to have all of those coincidences you mentioned be just that; Madelyne was just a normal woman who Scott would eventually marry and retire with. That’s a weird idea for an X-Men story but I suppose it would have made some sense because those coincidences were just ridiculously over the top; they felt like red herrings.
I remember that New Avengers story. I don’t remember how Wanda was drawn (although I do recall the entire issue was done in a very muted style, different from all preceding issues; is this accurate?), but was the reader ever given a reason to think she wasn’t the real Wanda (besides her apparent amnesia)? I thought Hawkeye recognized her straight away. That storyline frustrated me because it was so mysterious but months went by and they never came back to it (whatever the plan was, Children’s Crusade made it clear that they had changed their mind by that point). I couldn’t believe they went with the Doombot explanation. For one thing, yes, Hawkeye had sex with a Doombot and apparently didn’t notice (you really have to admire Doom’s attention to detail; did Nick Fury’s bots have that kind of craftsmanship?). But I wondered why the retcon was even necessary? When we finally saw the real Wanda, she was in the care of Doom. Couldn’t they have just said that Doom found her after Hawkeye did and took control of her then? Or maybe reveal that “Aunt Agatha” was just a Doom manipulation? Why did Doom build a Wanda robot and turn it loose to wander the streets and have sex with people?
@Si
It was skeevy all right. And terribly written. Those early X-Factor issues with Cyclops wrestling over what to do are absolutely painful to read. Seriously, people think Cyclops is a bastard now? Go check those books out. He was a complete asshole and, worse yet, Angel, Beast, and Iceman were more or less on board with him. The writers seemed to think that turning Madelyne into a bit of a nag and eventually into an evil clone would absolve everything; it did in the sense that Cyclops didn’t really destroy a poor innocent woman’s life, but the fact is he didn’t know what she was and he still abandoned what he thought was his wife and son because his dead girlfriend came back to life. And he didn’t tell her he was married. I swear, Apocalypse is the only reason that series survived the beginning.
For one, why the hell would you retcon it so that Hawkeye had sex with a Doombot. On which planet exactly does this sound like a good idea?
For two, I’ve never read the opening issues of X-Factor, but have heard plenty of “Cyclops is a bastard” comments relating to it. They should’ve just let him retire after issue 200. I always liked the extended cast during Claremont’s run. Suddenly Ice-man would roll back in and be an x-men for a few issues, and then he’d go back to doing his own thing. Now characters can be on 40 teams. It just doesn’t feel special when a character pops up.
@The original Matt
It’s funny, there were so many things completely wrong about X-Factor but it was enjoyable anyway. The Cyclops stuff was awful; not only were the decisions he made completely despicable, but his agonizing and complaining were completely off the map (and this was during a time when dialogue was pretty long and still punctuated mainly by exclamation points). And the entire premise behind the book (disguised mutant hunters) was very stupid, but they turned that around pretty quickly and the book started to take off. Cameron Hodge was neat and Apocalypse became a cool villain (but he wasn’t really written like his is today). It’s worth checking out, just be aware that the series has a rocky start. There’s some Essential volumes and there might even be a semi-recent color TPB of the early issues. Interesting stuff and very, very different from any sort of recent X-Men status quo.
P.S. About the Doombot, haha I have no idea. It’s the sort of thing you’d think to see in the Silver Age, so cutesy and stupid. Does anyone else remember another Doombot reveal from the last ten years or so?
I remember a story in the 90’s when Nick Fury was killed by the Punisher. He was buried, his body was even given the smell test by Wolverine, and it STILL turned out to be an LMD. This wasn’t a spoof story, either; Fury was really supposed to be killed, far as I knew. Oh well, now he’s dying and being replaced by a black guy with the same name and same eye missing so it can match the movie. Whee!
It’s commendable how readable Louise Simonson made X-Factor after the utterly ridiculous premise it started with. I think having characters in the book actually point out how stupid it was helped.
I liked the way they kept X-Factor separate from the X-Men in that run as well. Small references to the other books in the news (like Maddy’s plea to Scott being on the news while X-Factor’s busy getting a parade in Fall of the Mutants) and the like, with X-Factor wanting nothing to do with the X-Men when hearing Magneto’s running the school. And the supporting cast of kids in X-Factor was nice as well.
Well, the whole point of Maddie was Claremont giving Scott and “Jean” the happy ending they never got. Sort of like winking to the audience and getting around Jim Shooter and his edicts (all those coincidences ZZZ mentioned could be read as Claremont and Smith practically screaming to the audience “Yes, people, this is “Jean!”).
Re: Wanda Doombot
I think I read somewhere that Marvel’s official party line is that she was replaced by Doom after the events with Hawkeye.
@Frodo-X
But that was the only time we saw “Wanda” before her big reveal in Children’s Crusade, to my knowledge. What difference did it make if she was replaced by a Doombot if we never went back to that plotline anyway?
Marvel have actually introduced a black Fury into the comics? Or are you just making an ironic statement? It’s hard to tell.
@ The original Matt
Nope, it’s completely true. It’s in the Battle Scars series that’s just come out. Nick Fury is revealed to have a secret son (who is black) named Sgt. Marcus Johnson. He loses an eye in battle. At the end, the old Nick Fury retires and Sgt. Johnson, who now changes his name back to Nick Fury (which I guess was his original birth name) takes over for him.
It’s true, I promise. Pretty wonky, huh?
That is INCREDIBLY stupid! They do know that people are willing to accept that the actor my not look like the character in question, right? Did they change what’s his name from Thor into a black guy, too?
I mean, I’m all for retiring some of the older characters. Fury, Steve Rogers, Charles Xavier, Magneto etc… but “movie Fury is black, so we must make comic Fury black, too” is a joke.
(And no, it’s not because he’s black, either.)
I agree, it’s pretty absurd. I never got the impression that there was any real confusion out there by the general public over the black and white Furys. Nick Fury hasn’t been all that active in 616 comics in a number of years now (Maria Hill and Agent Brand seem to have stolen his thunder for that kind of role), and I’m betting that a non-comics reader who saw the Marvel movies probably wouldn’t even notice or care. They’re both named Nick Fury and they both have eye patches; what else do you need? I suppose they could have made it even more goofy by having Fury switch bodies with someone (knowing the MU, I’m kind of surprised they didn’t do something like that), but in the context of 616 this is still pretty weird because a decades old character is being thrown out at the drop of a hat all for some silly marketing thing.
I’ve explained both this story and Brand New Day to more than one person who likes the movies but doesn’t read comics. You should try it, the reactions you get are priceless.
Oh, and how come they didn’t make 616 Kingpin look like Michael Clark Duncan after Daredevil came out? Lol. Maybe because Daredevil sucked. I never would have guessed MCD as Kingpin but he was probably one of the most enjoyable characters in the movie.
I’m pretty sure Beast found Wanda too. Like Hawkeye he found her amnesiac and somewhat confused and sort of inexplicably left her alone. Unlike Hawkeye he didn’t take the opportunity to have sex with her. (Speaking of skeevy….)
It hasnt been that long sunce secret warriors ended, is it? And it seems like fury has been.in one of the cap books.
Why did he have to have a different name that he then changed to Nick Fury after he gets his Dad’s job. Couldn’t his name have been Nate Fury or something? Any movie goers coming onto the comics would just go “oh, it’s Nick Fury’s son in the comics nowadays”
(That said, I don’t think there has ever been a significant spike in comic sales after a hit movie, has there? I have friends who LOVE the super hero movies, but none of them have ever contemplated seeking out comics in any way.)
And a lost black son is much better than body swapping with a Samuel L Jackson lookalike.
If I wasn’t at work I’d post a youtube link for the Family Guy “my black son” sketch. I’d love for some tech savvy editor type to superimpose White Fury over Peter Griffin.
I believe the “Wanda was a Doombot” retcon was part of a convoluted attempt to salvage her as a character by “revealing” that Dr. Doom was responsible for every bad thing Wanda did in recent memory. The story, as I understand it (Children’s Crusade came out to sporadically that I rarely remembered it existed, much less what happened in the previous issue) was that she went to Doom for help getting her kids back (as you do), and instead of helping her, he manipulated her into doing the whole Avengers Dissassembled/House of M debacle (ain’t he a stinker?) then tucked her away in a room in his castle and sent a Wandabot to Transia so anyone looking for her would find it and think she had amnesia, somehow under the impression that if he didn’t do this, people might realize he had her in Latveria.
@DanLichtenberg
(Sorry this part is so long)
In the New Avengers issue, Wanda was drawn looking more like the Black Widow or Firestar than her usual self, and to make matters worse, while the Wanda in the issue was a slender woman with straight, light red hair, the cover of the issue featured a voluptuous Wanda in costume with curly black hair.
What happens is, Hawkeye goes to Transia looking for Wanda and stops a purse snatcher. A redhead runs over to thank him, and he passes out then wakes up in her bed with her tending to him. He asks her name and she says “Wanda Maximoff,” but it becomes clear through conversation that she at least thinks she’s just a normal Transian villager who’s never had powers or been to America, yadda yadda yadda, they have sex. Then he takes off and tells everyone he didn’t find Wanda.
Basically, it seemed to me that there were two ways to interpret it, and I wasn’t sure which was the one I was supposed to have gotten from it:
1) Hawkeye tracked Wanda Maximoff down to a village in Transia to get revenge on her for killing him (he got better) but when he found her she had amnesia, so he had sex with her and left instead. (In retrospect, this is clearly the correct interpretation, but aside from making the sex part extra creepy, it requires you to believe that Hawkeye could go looking for Wanda, find her, and then ask her what her name is BEFORE he knows she has amnesia)
2) Hawkeye tracked Wanda Maximoff down to a village in Transia to get revenge but when he got there he discovered that the local Wanda Maximoff didn’t look like the one he remembered, so he had sex with her and left, unsure whether she was his Wanda reincarnated into a new life (a la the Seige Perilous) or a completely unrelated person who has the same name by coincidence. This might seem like a heck of a stretch, but at the time I couldn’t help but think this might basically be another Madalyne Pryor except “same name different face” instead of “same face different name.” Hell, there HAS to be more than one “Wanda Maximoff” in the Marvel universe.
I’m pretty sure it was supposed to be clear to the reader that he’d found an amnesiac Scarlet Witch and decided to give up his quest for vengeance (in exchange for amnesia sex), but the lack of thought bubbles or narration boxes (there’s literally no indication in the book that Hawkeye recognizes the woman’s face, aside from the fact that he passes out after she thanks him for getting her purse back, which isn’t exactly the reaction you’d expect from a seasoned Avenger upon recognizing someone he knows, and could just as easily be chalked up to the exertion of stopping the purse snatching) combined with the fact that the Wanda in the book didn’t even look like the Wanda on the cover of the book left just enough room for doubt in my mind.
@ The original Matt
“That said, I don’t think there has ever been a significant spike in comic sales after a hit movie, has there?”
I’ve never gotten the impression that there has been, but I don’t have any date to back that up. Anyone know of anything?
It’s interesting to see how Marvel tries to tie the comics in with the movies each time; they never quite seem to do it right. When the first X-Men movie came out, the logo of Uncanny changed to more or less match the film, and there was a cover blurb that said, “The Comic that Inspired the Movie!” What was in this issue? The X-Men Revolutions team (Cable, Gambit, Beast, etc. in those weird costumes) fighting the freaking NEO. I can only imagine what a moviegoer thought after picking up that issue. When X-Men 2 came out they tried again and even had a 25 cent issue to get the ball rolling. The story at the time? Part one of Austen’s Exploding Communion Wafers.
Someone else recently mentioned (I can’t remember if it was here or elsewhere) how odd it was that the team rosters or status quo for these things almost never match the movies when they come out. It’s true. I understand it’s not going to line up perfectly, and creating a perfect jumping on point in the middle of years of stories is easier said than done, but it is strange that there’s not a little more care put into this. AvX might seem like a closer attempt, but really all it’s got going to it is that the Avengers are front and center and people know who the X-Men are. Maybe the movie audience is supposed to get those VS. books, and that’s why those are so simplistic and straightforward?
“Hell, there HAS to be more than one “Wanda Maximoff” in the Marvel universe.”
It would make a fantastic story. Annihilus touches down in some suburb somewhere, and shouts “Wanda Maximoff! I have you now!”, and some little old lady stomps out and says “oh for the love of … I already told the Super Adaptiod this morning, I’m Wanda married to Grigor Maximoff, you want the New York Maximoffs. Now get off the petunias.”
“At the end, the old Nick Fury retires and Sgt. Johnson, who now changes his name back to Nick Fury (which I guess was his original birth name)”
In that case, shouldn’t the bastard be known as Nick Fury II? Granted, Contrivance Johnson would be a much better name, if you ask me.