X-Men Legends #5-6
X-MEN LEGENDS #5-6
by Peter David, Todd Nauck & Rachelle Rosenberg
Three arcs into X-Men Legends, we’re seeing the limitations of this format. It’s a nice idea: get some fondly remembered creators from X-books of yesteryear and give them a couple of issues to do an untold story from their run. But generally you end up with an inconsequential story, because otherwise you’d have seen the consequences the first time round. What’s more, for most of their history, the X-books have stressed long-form, soap operatic stories… so the moment you do a self-contained two parter, you’re already straying from the tone of the original run. That’s maybe not as big a problem – there have been strong X-Men annuals down the years – but it’s still an issue.
Fabian Nicieza’s opening arc found a neat solution to the problem by tying up a genuine dropped plot from back in the day. The Simonsons plugged a few continuity gaps in their X-Factor run. But Peter David seems to just be going for a standalone X-Factor story, and it’s a rather half formed one at that.
X-Factor are being questioned by a Senate committee about a recent mission at the Latverian Embassy. That’s the framing sequence. The main story is the mission itself, in which a group of Latverian mutant terrorists take over the Latverian Embassy in the name of democracy and X-Factor get the somewhat unwelcome job of dealing with them.
The recap pages place this story between X-Factor #75-76, but as best as I can tell, that’s simply because issue #75 already involved an evil senator asking awkward questions about X-Factor. That senator was taken off the board by Mister Sinister at the end of the issue, but this is the inquiry he’d already set in train. Fair enough. That’s as good a rationale as any for placing it here. But unless I’m missing something, it’s not trying to fit into the story in any more complex way than that. David is doubtless well aware that there’s no point trying to play off anything subtle from 30 years ago unless you have time to set it up, so why bother?
What you get is a straightforward story in which X-Factor deal with some one-off villains. It does recapture a lot of the voice of David’s X-Factor, and things like Quicksilver cynically dismissing everyone else’s excuses for turning down the mission work very well. The relatively competent Havok rising more or less successfully to the challenge of shepherding his team of misfits comes across nicely here too – back in 1991, this was a really odd team. Quicksilver, okay, but… the own-brand Scott and Jean, one of the New Mutants, a background guy from Muir Island and a joke character who stood around next to Lila Cheney? In their own book?
Those early nineties X-Factor issues were beloved, not least among readers who weren’t that keen on the post-Claremont direction of the line. With hindsight, the Hama/Silvestri Wolverine run has probably held up better, but X-Factor was a well written, idiosyncratically entertaining series. Larry Stroman’s angular art was a big part of its tone too, and it’s tough to recapture that aspect without him. Legends doesn’t really try, and brings in Todd Nauck – a perfectly decent storyteller, if a little bland for my tastes, but as far removed from Stroman as it’s possible to get. I suppose that’s probably a better option that hiring someone to do a Stroman impersonation – it’s not like there are many artists out there working in the style of Stroman ’91 – but it still feels a little strange.
The story, though… The Latverian Embassy is attacked by four pro-democracy mutant terrorists, who bizarrely go by the names Imbolc, Samhain, Lughnasa and Beltane. The story seems to think these are some sort of names associated with withcraft and, er, no, they’re Gaelic holidays. Which make them a linguistically odd choice of name for a bunch of nebulously eastern Europeans. Although they’re trying to overthrow Dr Doom, they’re more than willing to smash up a few innocents in order to get their point across, and so there’s never any real ambiguity that they are indeed Baddies who X-Factor should indeed be stopping.
Beyond the basic plot of X-Factor finally bringing in Doom himself to get rid of these guys, the story gestures at some themes but never really does anything with them. There’s an element of X-Factor as the unappreciated government team caught between enforcing the law and not being all that keen on Dr Doom, but as I say, it’s never really in doubt that X-Factor are right to be shutting them down. There’s an idea that Doom himself somehow gave these guys mutant powers – or maybe brought out their latent mutant abilities – in some sort of attempt to harness mystical forces and, presumably, rescue his mother from Hell. That’s usually what Doom wants magic for. But does that come to anything? Not really.
The hook of the final issue is meant to lie in the bad guys capturing and tormenting Wolfsbane, who badly injures one of them in retaliation, and then – in an epilogue – more or less hands them over to Dr Doom. I suppose that might fit somewhat into Rahne’s confused, post-brainwashing state in X-Factor at that time, but nothing of that sort is really set up in this story. It feels arbitrary and somewhat weightless, and it certainly doesn’t land as a final beat.
This has its moments, and it does hark back to the X-Factor of old from time to time. But as a story, it’s underwhelming.
Actually: Imbolc, Samhain, Lughnasa, and Beltane are four of the eight Sabbats (festivals celebrated by witches). A lot of modern witches kind of glom on to ancient traditions, and the Celtic holidays are pretty popular.
On another note, Peter David’s X-Factor was one of the first series I started collecting when I got into comics. I loooved that line-up, and Guido and Madrox (under David’s pen) are to this day some of my favorite characters. A pity they couldn’t track down Larry Stroman to draw this, as his art was just as much a character as David’s loopy dramatis personae.
Paul> Larry Stroman’s angular art was a big part of its tone too, and it’s tough to recapture that aspect without him. Legends doesn’t really try, and brings in Todd Nauck – a perfectly decent storyteller, if a little bland for my tastes, but as far removed from Stroman as it’s possible to get. I suppose that’s probably a better option that hiring someone to do a Stroman impersonation – it’s not like there are many artists out there working in the style of Stroman ’91 – but it still feels a little strange.
I definitely don’t think Nauck is “as far removed from Stroman as it’s possible to get” – I’d put someone like Greg Land, or maybe Steve Epting if we want someone who can actually draw rather than trace, in that position. Nauck’s pretty cartoony, even if he’s not as extreme as Stroman. (And I’ve never been a fan of Stroman. Judging by the reaction to his taking over as artist during PAD’s 2000s-era X-Factor run, which sank the book for me, I’m not alone in that…)
Also, while Nauck isn’t associated with X-Factor, he IS associated with PAD – they did 50+ issues of Young Justice together at DC (I forget exactly how many issues exactly he did of the 55-plus in the main series, plus various specials like Sins of Youth, but there weren’t many fill-ins). That might have something to do with him drawing these issues.
“Those early nineties X-Factor issues were beloved, not least among readers who weren’t that keen on the post-Claremont direction of the line. With hindsight, the Hama/Silvestri Wolverine run has probably held up better, but X-Factor was a well written, idiosyncratically entertaining series.”
Don’t forget Alan Davis’ solo Excalibur run, one of the better titles from that era, and still holds up really well today (minus the solo Lobdell fill-ins).
If anything, I’m surprised David didn’t use this as a chance to at least tie up his X-patriots/Genosha story.
@Maxwell’s Hammer: Yeah, but it still feels weird when you’re actually a Celt.
I mean, suppose they’d named themselves after the other four Sabbats of the Great Wheel. That would mean one of them was called Yule. And that would seem weird, right? Yes, it’s a Wiccan thing, but it’s not exclusively a Wiccan thing. For most people it’s just an alternate name for Christmas.
In the same way, for an Edinburgian like Paul, Beltane is when there’s a bonfire on Calton Hill. There’s nothing mystical about it, or at least no more so than any other Scottish fire festival.
What else is there to say about the X-Patriots? They went back to Genosha. That’s the end of their story. I suppose you could do a sequel, but it’s not really a dropped plot.
I just googled Larry Stroman and it looks like he’s mostly doing commissions these days. If they could afford the Simonsons, surely they could have afforded Larry Stroman, right?
Now that I’m thinking about it, it would have been pretty rad if Larry Stroman could have done the flashback/main story and Joe Quesada did the framing sequence.
A bit more recently, Nauck also drew several arcs of PAD’s Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, so they definitely have quite a bit of history working together.
“What else is there to say about the X-Patriots? They went back to Genosha. That’s the end of their story. I suppose you could do a sequel, but it’s not really a dropped plot.”
Except it’s not exactly what David has in mind as the end of their story. And he didn’t even finish the Genosha part of the story the way he wanted to.
I “may” be projecting from my own tastes and from the memory of reading that Peter David accepted writing Supergirl mainly for the chance of working with Gary Frank again, but if I had to guess, Peter David may well prefer the clearer storytelling of pencilers such as Gary Frank and Todd Nauck.
His best work tends to be on extended runs where he far too often lacked control over the eventual new pencilers, and to my eye at least those tended to be over-stylized and not as good at storytelling. That happened in his Hulk run and, to a lesser extent, also in his Supergirl run.
It would not surprise me any if he just prefers Nauck’s work over Stroman’s.
As for the plot, it strikes me as something of a fast-paced recycling of Peter David’s own crossover with Hulk – the story that he himself wrote between #75 and #76 back in the day, as a matter of fact. Wolfsbane’s situation, at least, is remarkably similar.
Which probably helps in making use of the beats and plot points of the original storyline without contradicting anything. I guess that is ok. Peter David wrote long running plots back in the day (and probably still does). There is only so much retroactive continuity to insert.
“If they could afford the Simonsons, surely they could have afforded Larry Stroman, right?”
He may have been offered the job but turned it down for some reason for all we know.
Good point, and the world may never know.
I will say, looking through his instagram account, he’s still got it!
He does, which is why if I were an 80’s era creator like him, or the Simonsons, or PAD, etc, I would never accept a job like this one. “X-Men Legends.” I may as well tattoo the word “relic” on my forehead because that’s precisely how Marvel sees me. A relic creator of yesteryear who they want to be able wheel out on occasion like a museum piece, but otherwise– no longer hireable.
Nuh-uh. No way I’m going to fuel that perception of theirs (theirs, meaning Marvel, not the fans) that this is the only sort of thing I’m good for these days: throwback projects. Nope, I’d tell them straight up, “You want Moo? Then you give Moo a regular gig. Not some memory lane one-off. Moo is still relevant. Moo can still put asses in the seats. Otherwise, don’t call Moo.”
Okay, maybe I wouldn’t refer to myself in the third-person like the Hulk or Regis Philbin, but you get the point.
@wwk5d
“Don’t forget Alan Davis’ solo Excalibur run, one of the better titles from that era, and still holds up really well today (minus the solo Lobdell fill-ins)”
Ah, now there’s a fill in I’d like to see! Kylun’s search for lost parents or how he grew up in the alternate dimension. Sat-yr-9 and Jamie Braddock before Jamie resurfaced. His original plans for Cerise.
A Technet adventure. Feron and Micromax go to Blackpool… (I’m stretching now!).
I seem to remember that Peter David pretty much put the whole blame for 2000s X-Factor tanking on Larry Stroman’s run, and had some very unkind things to say about him on CBR or whatever, so I’m not sure Stroman would have even wanted to work with him, or David with Stroman.
@Gareth-
I can’t find a single thing that is even resembles what you’re describing. And it really doesn’t seem in character. Any chance you can share a link?
@Moo PAD doesn’t quite fall into the category you’re describing, as he’s still getting regular work from Marvel. Though I guess his series all fall under the ‘throwback project’ term – he’s doing Maestro miniseries, Symbiote Spider-Man which I think is a continuity implant series (though it somehow had a King in Black tie-in issue?)… and his last project set in the current day was Scarlet Spider, which by definition was a throwback (though not to his own work – PAD didn’t write Ben Reilly in the 90s, did he?).
The same goes for Larry Hama, who’s doing the next two issues – he’s just finished an Iron Fist mini.
@David
Actually took me a while to find – thought I was going mad, but remembered it being discussed on the Uncanny X-Cast (RIP)
Here you go
https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?27820-X-POSITION-Peter-David-Preps-quot-All-New-X-Factor-quot-Finale-and-quot-2099-quot-Return
No, David never wrote a Ben Reilley comic before the most recent one.
stroman did some issues of PAD’s later X-Factor run ( i think the issues that introduced Darwin to the team if memory serves me correct –
and they were… not good. in fact i would go as far to say they were awful. It looked rushed and no where near as dynamic as his art in the first x-factor back in the 90s.
I suppose you’re right. Not sure what happened there. Seemed like he was doing an impression of someone doing a bad Stroman impression.
Anyway, okay. If Hama and PAD still want work and are still able to get work then that’s good.
But where’s my series? Moo is still relevant!
@Gareth-
Thanks for finding it. Jeez, he really does trash Stroman in this thread.
“I hate to say this, but sales were rock solid before Larry started on the book, and by the time he was finished, we’d lost 1/3 of our readership. In all my years of writing, I’ve NEVER lost that many readers so quickly. I’m not pointing fingers. I’m simply saying that this is what happened to sales while Larry was on the book. When he left, we stopped losing readers, although we never regained the readers we lost. It’s as simple as that. Draw from that what you will.”
—
“Dude, *I* stopped reading the book.”
—
“In summary, let me give you one example of what I encountered in doing the book while Larry was drawing it.
This is what I wrote in one early story:
Establishing shot, the exterior of X-Factor headquarters. It’s a rundown tenement style house and is the only one on its block. It is raining; no sun in the sky. No one is around; the visual is depressing as hell.
What did I get? Bright sunny day. House looked normal. People were walking past including women with large buttocks pushing babies in strollers. I tried to set a particular mood, Larry drew something else.
But if you didn’t like the story, it’s my fault.
Do you see now?”
Can’t say that I disagree- I found the Stroman issues very hard to get through. I just looked them back up, I can’t believe how bad they look. On the other hand, his 4 issues did include a Secret Invasion tie-in that crossed over with She-Hulk and centered around Lyja. As an X-factor reader, not one bit of that was appealing or relevant to the story. So I’d argue Peter David could stand to take on some of the blame.
Er, I guess it was Jazinda, not Lyja.
Hmm… that was interesting. Thanks, Gareth.
Well, I suppose we can take a more educated guess as to why Stroman didn’t turn up for this. Either PAD urged against it, or perhaps Stroman caught wind of PAD’s remarks in that discussion thread at some point and no longer wishes to collaborate with him. Maybe a bit of both.
That would be on Marvel editorial rather than David, I’d think.
I’m sure he wasn’t interested in telling a Secret Invasion story, but Marvel forced the book to participate.
On a side note, I’m not really sure what to make of some of PAD’s other remarks in that thread. Seemed he was trying to paint himself as Mr. Gives-No-Fucks, but if he’s really that, then why would he enter the discussion in the first place?
I mean, in my experience, when someone tries to tell you that they don’t care what other people think of them, then that usually means they DO care what people think of them. They care enough at least enough that it’s important to them for you to see them as someone who doesn’t care what other people think. It’s part of their self-image.
Whereas people who genuinely DON’T care what other people think of them won’t bother with “So, this is what I’m all about…”
@Chris V
PAD was writing She-Hulk at the time, Jazinda was his character. I recall it didn’t read like a mandated crossover, more like a writer bringing all his toys together.
Glad you found it helpful, David.
Stroman didn’t really click on those X-Factor issues back then, but I seem to recall him doing a Bishop mini-series (when BIshop was being a baddie during that boring Cable run) where he definitely got more into the swing of things.
I thought PAD was a bit unfair on Stroman. I think the books weren’t long removed from Messiah Complex, where they would have had an artificial high anyway.
I prefer to mull on the happier 1991 times. I believe the omni of it came out this week. I seem to recall PAD introduced the Isolationist in the last page of his run and then brought him back in the 2000’s. That’s playing the long game!
Stroman’s issues were where I dropped off X-Factor at the time. I had not read the classic run at that time but even now I do prefer the Quesada stuff to Stroman, even if I know he’s a cult fave.
Although I did think Stroman’s art was awful during the brief run in question, I really do still find his work from the original run to be amazing. Really gorgeous and unique.
Am I the only one that thinks Quicksilver was playing the role of a somewhat unreliable narrator? I mean, Doom’s gone way faster than Pietro’s top speed before (like when he stole the Surfer’s powers). No way he’d ever suffer motion sickness like that.
@David: Same. Stroman’s original run was full of energy and interesting design choices. His return looked so heavy, like all the characters were melted wax. Maybe part of that is the difference in inkers? But a lot of the offbeat panel placements and extraneous design details were gone, too.
For what it’s worth, I always loved how he placed wacky background characters in the foreground. They’re very different artists, but that particular quirk reminded me of all the fun Art Adams had with Warlock’s shape in the New Mutants Special on Asgard (e.g., Gumby, Enterprise). Just fun details that were completely unnecessary but enriched the reading experience.
Here’s one more for “Classic Stroman.” I never read the X-FACTOR issues in which he turned in trash, and that’s sad to hear.
Hopefully he gets another shot.
Moo, as well.
To spin the topic forward, what feasible creative teams would folks like to see do an arc if this book?
OK, I take it back. The world can do some internet detective work and make an educated guess. I was wrong! 🙂
As for wish list creative teams, I already got one with the Simonsons. 🙂 Anything by Alan Davis, of course. Is Mark Texeira still around? It’d be fun to see him and Larry Hama do a Wolverine story (Hama’s upcoming story has art by Billy Tan). It’d be neat-o to see Greg Capullo or Adam Pollina on an X-Force story. Igor Kordey on an X-Men or Cable story. Paul Smith on X-Men. Sam Keith on a Wolverine story (which we did get recently in one of those rando one-shots a year or two ago). Roy Thomas and Neal Adams on X-Men. etc.
That’s off the top of my head.
I am looking forward to the Claremont story.
Outside of that, although there’s no chance:
I also want to see Darko Macan/Igor Kordey writing Soldier X (Cable).
Anne Nocenti…I don’t care about the artist or character. Maybe a new Longshot story with Art Adams, if that counts.
Ooh!
Yes, Ann Nocenti and Art Adams on Longshot. Please and thanks!
I’d also love to see Ann Nocenti and John Romita Jr. work on something together again.
Is Rick Leonardi still around?
Yeah, Alan Davis doing an Excalibur story is a must. Evilgus is right that it should be either a Kylun story or a Cerise story, although I wouldn’t be surprised if we got something with Micromax instead.
And speaking of Excalibur, why not Claremont and Davis teaming up to finish the Shadowcat/Sat-Yr-9 story they had going?
Also, is Gail Simeone exclusive to DC? If not, let’s bring her in for some Deadpool or Agent X.
Sorry for derailing the conversation but Hickman just announced his leaving the x-books after Inferno. We’ll stay in the Phase One of the three-stage master plan indefinitely.
Which is funny because I made a joke like that in the comments some time ago. But apparently the separation is amicable – the other x-writers want to keep playing in the Krakoa playground and didn’t want the master plan to go forward.
Yep, none of this shit is ever going to pay off.
Honestly, I don’t mind the phalanxes and Titans and Black hole megaminds staying in Powers of X only. And I prefer most other writers’ takes on these characters to Hickman’s. So. I’m not overly heartbroken about this.
Sigh…I feared this was the case when the solicitations for “Inferno” kept using the term “culmination”.
It seemed weird to say this when Hickman had a year still on the books.
I wonder if Hickman had no end game in mind and this is why he is leaving the books early.
He knew at this point, it was too far along to simply return to ideas from HoX/PoX to try to resolve it.
I think I’m done with the X-titles after “Inferno”.
I’ll keep reading SWORD if it continues, but I am finished.
I hope it all ends with Destiny resurrected, she shows Moira a vision of the future (the reader does not see it), Moira says, “Yep. Mutants always lose.”, then we get “The End…?”.
It would be nice if we could get Hickman and Larraz to finish the Krakoa story in X-Men Legends. 🙂
Now that’s a solid joke I wish I thought of myself.
I don’t know, maybe the writers wanting to maintain the current status quo is a good thing. Maybe they can explore the theme for a few more years instead of careening off into some grand concept about the nature of Emergence and its place in evolution, or where ever the story was going. Maybe they can knock some of the edges off so the setting sits a bit better in the wider ongoing Marvel Universe as well.
It’ll all end soon enough either way. Sales will flag, some influential writer or editor who grew up watching the old cartoon will reset things in some clumsy way, a movie will come out requiring a realignment of the comics, or whatever. But I was never convinced the end result of this grand journey was going to be worth it. Best to mine the current vein for ideas for as long as possible.
So many comics get truncated or change course midstream these days that I can’t say I’m surprise, but I’m still disappointed. I was excited to see the big conclusion that wrapped up HoXPoX even if the comics in between were hit or miss.
Hopefully, Inferno is beautiful and bombastic enough to feel like a proper payoff. If there’s no reveal about what Moira’s been up to, then why did we all get invested in this story in the first place? I supposed Mystique “burning down” Krakoa is going to more symbolic than literal, though.
At least this explains the writers’ earlier comments about wanting to hold a Hellfire Ball every year.
Oh that’s disappointing about Hickman leaving. Less about him as writer, more about him as architect. With him gone, who becomes ‘adult in the room’ with senior vision other writers defer to? I fear it’ll be his protegee Howard, given how he steered her through the muddled and overlong X of Swords.
But I do like the new Krakoan setup which has plenty fertile story potential. Victim of its own success?
I’m sure it will default to the classic structure of the editor/group editor/whatever being the “architect.” I would imagine he’s the only other one (besides his bosses) who know what all the plans are.
Speaking of Hickman, anyone else following Three Worlds Three Moons, his new project with Del Mundo
and Huddleston and others?