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Apr 19

X Lives of Wolverine

Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2022 by Paul in x-axis

X LIVES OF WOLVERINE #1-5
Writer: Benjamin Percy
Artist: Joshua Cassara
Colourist: Frank Martin
Letterer: Cory Petit
Editor: Mark Basso

X Lives of Wolverine seems to be a book that Marvel had a lot of faith in. Together with its sister book X Deaths of Wolverine, it was billed as a ten-week event that would replace most of the X-books during the season break. The format harks back to House of X and Powers of X, the two linked Jonathan Hickman books that kicked off the Krakoan era, and in that sense perhaps the most important X-books in years. Marvel gave X Lives a same-day release on Marvel Unlimited, and they’ve just posted both miniseries there, without waiting the normal three months. It’s all promoted in such a way as to say it’s a big deal.

This may not have been to the book’s advantage. We’ll come to X Deaths of Wolverine separately, but it follows up directly on Moira’s story from Inferno, and advances some of the Krakoan themes about posthumanity. That book feels like it has implications for the line.

X Lives of Wolverine… not so much. Mikhail Rasputin sends Omega Red back in time in an attempt to alter history by removing Professor X from the picture before he can found the X-Men. Omega Red tries to do that either by killing the Professor himself at an earlier point in his life, or taking out one of his ancestors. His consciousness is projected, Days of Futures Past style, into the bodies of assorted randoms, who then get temporarily transformed into Omega Reds. Wolverine is sent back to possess his own past bodies and save the day, because he’s the X-Man who’s actually been around long enough to be present throughout this history.

Its links with X Deaths are mostly thematic – this book is about Wolverine going into the past to stop an attack on the timeline, while X Deaths is about a future Wolverine coming back to the present. Technically there’s a plot link – Wolverine retrieves the Cerebro Sword at the end of this series which happens to resolve the plot in X Deaths – but that’s pretty arbitrary stuff. One of the lesser glitches of both series is that the Cerebro Sword is presented as central to the plot , but we’ve never actually been given any coherent explanation of what it does or why it’s relevant. I realise these sort of plot mechanics are terribly dry and that there are good reasons for not wanting to spend too much time on them, but you can go too far in the other direction. Percy writes as if we all know what the Cerebro Sword does and (perhaps more fundamentally) what it’s supposed to signify. I’m still largely clueless on both counts. It’s an… icon of X-Men-ness? Or something? Is it just a macguffin that likes to dress up as a metaphor?

At any rate, the main feature of this story is revisiting the history of Wolverine. Despite the title referring to ten points in his life (the X is a Roman numeral, as it was in Powers of X), the story doesn’t actually have space for all of them, and focusses instead on a smaller number. There’s wilderness Logan from just after Origin, who meets Xavier’s sailor ancestor. There’s Wolverine from Jasmine Falls, the idyll where he married Itsu and fathered Daken. There’s Team X Wolverine, on a black ops team with Sabretooth. And given at least a decent chance to shine are the time of Charles Xavier’s birth, World War II, and good old Weapon X. Percy throws in some random stuff about the Venom symbiote there, drawing on material from a largely forgotten Venom one-shot, but fair enough, I guess. You can’t really ignore Weapon X in a series like this, but at the same time, who wants to see yet another straight re-tread of Barry Windsor-Smith’s floatation tank?

None of this really feels like it has much impact beyond Percy’s two books, Wolverine and X-Force, where Mikhail and Omega Red’s storylines had built up. Technically, I suppose anything that impacts Mikhail has an impact on Colossus, due to the mind-control arc, and that in turn has an impact on Immortal X-Men… but that doesn’t come up. So while X Lives has been promoted as if it were a line-wide event, it feels like just a Wolverine arc. And it would probably have read better if it had just been presented as a romp through Wolverine’s history, which is what it is, instead of something more important.

Cassara’s art leans a little towards the grotesque, and can feel a bit out of place where regular costumed superheroes are involved. Here, he gets to do old mansions, giant sea monsters, and horrific transformed Omega Reds with bone coils. He’s good at the straightforward violence. I’m not so sure about the cube visual he uses for Mikhail’s reality warping power, which feels banal. But ask him to draw a whaling expedition or a jungle bee nest and you’ll be fine. And the opening page of issue #5, with its backdrop of faces of Wolverine throughout his history, is excellent – it could easily have been tediously repetitive, but Cassara really does make all those panels different. I can’t shake the feeling that Cassara would be better off drawing a horror book, but there’s plenty here that plays to his strengths, and he takes advantage of that.

To give Percy his due, he steers clear of a simple rendition of the greatest hits. We don’t take up time here with Department H or Madripoor, or indeed any earlier times with the X-Men. And I like the fact that the book is non-linear, jumping between different points in time without worrying too much about their sequence or about Wolverine’s personal timeline. There’s a degree of confusion, in fact, about how that’s supposed to work – the first issue seems pretty clear that Logan jumps from one point in time to another after he’s finished his mission, but the final one seems to suggest that Logan is just generally lost in the timestream and is reliving all these past eras simultaneously, until he’s reassembled in the present. Those aren’t completely contradictory, though; perhaps the idea is that the order of it all is breaking down as Mikhail’s attack builds to a climax. I think Percy gets the balance right with this device – it’s disorienting rather than confusing, because the basic thrust of what’s happening remains pretty clear.

Is there a point to any of this, though? I think there is. From Wolverine’s narrated speech during the final battle with Omega Red, the big idea seems to have two elements. One is that revisiting his past has reminded Wolverine of who he is and of his sense of identity, which is fine, but ultimately a bit trite. The other is that the impressionistic history Wolverine sees through this fragmented journey – and which may have been altered by the story itself – is what he really needs, rather than a more rigorously coherent account of history. It’s the broad themes and the disparate angles that make up the character, rather than the details of how they all fit together.

Despite the fact that I’ve been re-reading Wolverine’s history in chronological order, I’d basically agree with Percy if that’s his general idea. From the standpoint of any normal reader, continuity is impressionistic; and even in the real world, memory is fragmentary. What matters about Wolverine’s history is not the precise details but the fact that there’s so very much of it. It’s an angle that maybe sits uncomfortable with the decision to accompany this series with Life of Wolverine Infinity Comic, which is indeed just a straightforward retelling of Wolverine’s history in chronological order. (I’ll come back to that book separately, though I may as well tell you now that I won’t be spending very long on it.)

Perhaps the most interesting creative decision in the book, viewed from that angle, is its treatment of Romulus. Daniel Way’s Wolverine: Origins devoted years to carefully setting out a detailed conspiracy history of Wolverine in which Romulus was weaved into everything. In theory, this should have cemented Romulus as an A-list Wolverine villain. In practice, he’s almost never been mentioned again – in fact, he’s only shown up once since Wolverine: Origins, and that was a story by his creator Jeph Loeb. Given the amount of Wolverine material that Marvel churn out, the fact that nobody else seems to have found him remotely inspiring speaks volumes.

The fundamental error in Wolverine: Origins is to think that Wolverine’s history is improved in any way by tying it all together. Quite the opposite: the strength of Wolverine’s history lies in its sprawling diversity, and the vast amount of things that are there to draw on. Ironically, the one part of Origins that has stuck is Jasmine Falls and its introduction of Daken, both of which were genuinely additive and more or less severable from Romulus. Romulus does show up here, only to be summarily despatched and treated as a minor nuisance, rather than the dominant threat he was designed to be. Maybe it’s just a grudgingly acknowledgement of the character and not a deliberate meta burial, but either way, Percy’s whole approach to Wolverine’s history and why it works seems to be the opposite of everything Romulus was designed to do. In fact, having one of the barely-seen “lives” be an Old West story from the turn of the 20th century feels like a way of saying, look, there’s still parts of this guy’s life that we’ve barely touched on.

As a romp through the character’s history, this is fun enough. But the plot that it’s tied to, with Mikhail and Professor X, feels sketchy and unsatisfying; obviously it’s just a device to do the time travel stuff, but the problem is that it feels like just a device to do the time travel stuff. I’ve never been sold on Omega Red as a character – he’s a nice enough visual, but there’s not much too him beyond being a serial killer with a hazy back story who happens to need a thingummy to keep his powers under control. You could make him an opposite number for Wolverine, I suppose, based on being somebody who willingly underwent experimentation to become a super-soldier weapon for his country. But it’s not really a theme in here, and Omega Red’s role ultimately comes to be as a visually memorable random footsoldier. He doesn’t have a particular connection with Professor X; and it’s certainly not as if we’re visiting parts in Omega Red’s past.

By the same token, what does Mikhail actually want? There’s not much depth to him in this incarnation beyond being a Russian nationalist, which may be topical, but it’s also quite shallow. We’re never really told what he’s actually trying to achieve by altering history in this way – presumably, without Professor X there are no X-Men and maybe no Krakoa, but surely the knock-on effects of taking the X-Men off the board are wildly unpredictable (and quite possibly result in the world ending). Is he meant to be reckless? Desperate? Dogmatically convinced that whatever world emerges will be better? Does he think he can shape it somehow? I don’t really know and I don’t get the impression that Percy is particularly bothered. But… that’s the central motivation for the main villain right there. So the final issue, where Wolverine actually defeats the bad guys, doesn’t land – because nothing very coherent was ever set up to be resolved.

Trying to press this jaunt into service as a line-wide event feels like a miscalculation. It’s just not that sort of story. But when it’s just being vaguely absurd and revelling in the character’s past – when it’s just enjoying the trip and not worrying too much about the destination – it’s entertaining enough.

 

 

Bring on the comments

  1. Thom H. says:

    @Nu-D: I see the logic in your argument, and I think it’s very humane, but I just can’t make it work emotionally for myself.

    Honestly, I think it’s worth undoing some number of new lives to also undo PTSD on a global (universal) scale.

    At the end of the day, I realize we’re playing by comic book rules. We’re supposed to pretend that normal individuals aren’t particularly affected by constant threats to their existence.

    I guess it’s a testament to the movies that I can very much imagine the emotional chaos that the two snaps would inflict. I just wish that had been followed up on in a meaningful way.

    I didn’t watch Falcon and Winter Soldier, so maybe I should see if that assuages my feelings about the second snap.

  2. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    I doubt it will do anything to influence your feelings. It uses the blip as a plot hook, but it’s not really interested in exploring it in any meaningful way.

    And even the plot hook is basically dropped later on.

    Spoiler-ish explanation – after the blip there was mass migration, people were needed to fill the halved workforces in developed countries, so those countries welcomed refugees with open arms. Now that people are back, these same countries are preparing to deport the ‘blip migrants’. Fighting for their cause is the motivation of the Revolutionary Who Takes Things Too Far And Kills Random People So We Know They’re Actually Evil Despite Being Right (…of the week).

    In the finale Sam Wilson says to a politician ‘we have to do better’ and that’s the resolution of the blip migrant plotline.

    ‘Disappointing’ doesn’t even begin to cover my feelings on that amazing bit of scripting.

  3. Nu-D says:

    I didn’t watch Falcon and Winter Soldier, so maybe I should see if that assuages my feelings about the second snap.

    The treatment in Captain America and the Winter Soldier was pretty weak IMO. It focused on the geopolitics of the aftermath, and the political radicalization that grew out of it. It it was a shallow treatment, very much driven by the plot themes, and not really interested in a genuine human story.

  4. Si says:

    Personally I think you guys are being a bit unfair about the series. The picture painted was that those left behind were coming together as one people, happy, multicultural, with less poverty and strife (not terribly realistic, but what is in the MCU?). When the vanished people came back, all that progress was abandoned for the old status quo.

    Not that the show didn’t have its problems. The simplistic morality as mentioned above, breaking a neo-nazi supervillain out of prison because their investigation was going a bit slowly, and so-on. But yeah, the point is, the blip and its effects was one of the drivers of the plot. Unlike the Spider-Man movie that apparently went out of its way to show a world untouched and ordinary.

    It was a not-insubstantial part of Monica Rambeau’s backstory in WandaVision, too, but didn’t affect the plot much.

  5. Josie says:

    “If there were ten gems on two gloves, it would be a clap”

    Oh my god, I need to see this in a comic now.

  6. Mike Loughlin says:

    The blip makes a decent motivator for backstory, but we the audience haven’t seen how life has changed on a fundamental level. Peter Parker’s whole class vanished and now they’re back!- the implications get maybe one line of dialogue in one of the three MCU Spider-Man movies. The return of blipped people have affected global politics and day to day life for many! – a terrorist organization is born, acts confused about its politics,

  7. Mike Loughlin says:

    (argh, stupid accidentally hitting “Submit comment” again!)

    and is taken out in F&tWS. Monica was blipped! – she gets back to work, even if her position was reshuffled, so she can be in Wandavision. The blip is too complicated for the MCU to handle, so it’s little more than backstory now. I doubt the MCU will delve any further into its ramifications when there’s a multiverse to play with.

  8. Si says:

    Well that’s the thing. Five years is way too long. You won’t have a stable ecosystem, let alone a functional human society. If you want to have a shared universe that resembles the real one with something like that in the immediate past, the only options are to ignore it completely like the movies, or tease out individual strands and focus on them, like the miniseries.

    But the idea of half of all life vanishing and then reappearing five years later could make a great sci fi novel. I’d expect *much more* than half the human population would end up dying of disease, starvation and violence by the end, which would be an interesting irony.

  9. YLu says:

    At the end of the day, Marvel’s appeal, in films and on the page, is that it’s “the world outside your window.” That puts a definite limit on how much you can explore the consequences of something like the Blip. Take anything other than the shallowest approaches to that sort of thing and it very quickly stops feeling like “our” world.

  10. Josie says:

    With immoral mutants and hulks running around and symbiotes taking over the planet every other week, I’m pretty sure “the world outside your window” hasn’t been relevant since the Jemas era.

  11. Jon Auerbach says:

    The MCU seems to be taking the tact that everything has been restored to the pre-Blip state. Every town and city look absolutely normal and are functioning normally. The post-apocalyptic state the world seems to have fallen into in the beginning of Endgame has been seemingly erased. Maybe that’s a good thing, as if they didn’t do that, every show/movie would be forced to deal with the depressing aftermath of the Blip for the next 10 years. They clumsily tried to deal with post-Blip political ramifications in F&WS and it completely fell flat. I would like them to mine the Blip though for villain origin stories, like how they created a dozen villains based on characters who all hated Tony Stark.

  12. Thom H. says:

    @YLu: I think that’s an excellent point. For me, Marvel stretched their cinematic universe beyond what I could recognize as “our world” and that eroded my belief in the entire enterprise.

    Five years of grief, chaos, and rebuilding only to have to do it all again? No thanks. Just make the whole nightmare unhappen, please.

    I cannot imagine the absolute hell the residents of Westview went through after two snaps and a witch taking over their bodies. Could you even get enough therapy to put your life back together after that?

  13. YLu says:

    @Josie

    But despite all the big weird stuff, none of it significantly changes society. It’s our world with a shallow layer of weirdness on top, but that layer never sinks down and actually changes the world, which stays recognizably ours.

    (Though stories are more and more frequently pushing right up against that boundary these days.)

    To put it another way, I can imagine the current X-stories leading to a storyline where the fictional Madripoor government is permanently overthrown. I cannot imagine them ever leading to a storyline where the Russian or British government is permanently overthrown.

    @Thom H

    I get what you mean, though isn’t that exactly the sort of thing the comics expect us to accept on the regular? I remember someone online counting up every time New York’s been invaded/attacked in Marvel stories and dividing that up among the supposed number of years since Fantastic Four #1. The conclusion was that Marvel New York had to have been under serious attack at least once per week or some ridiculous frequency like that. Just imagine what that would do to residents, psychologically. How that would affect the culture. Why even rebuild stuff if everyone knows it’s just going to get blown up again shortly?

    But we’ll never get stories depicting Marvel NY as some hellhole under constant siege, because it’s supposed to be the world outside our window, not some sci-fi dystopia.

  14. Nu-D says:

    First Grant Morrison, now Jonathan Hickman, had the vision to move the X-Men beyond the “world outside your window,” and treat them like the science fiction concept they deserve to be.

  15. Thom H. says:

    @YLu: Totally. I think the difference is what Si mentioned above. Most alien, supervillain, demon, etc. incursions into the everyday life of New Yorkers last hours or days in-story.

    In the real world, they would be tragic and terrible, but comics can wave each one away pretty easily. It was scary, but no one was hurt, and they fixed all the damage. We usually don’t even get to meet any of the by-standers.

    A global catastrophe that had five years to unfold is just too long a timeframe. People would have vastly different lives as they compensated for their losses. (Not to mention the collapse of economies and governments.)

    Marvel even showed us the devastating effects of the first snap, both personally and collectively, and then purposely didn’t undo them. The second snap wasn’t “everyone comes back and everything goes back to normal.” It was just “everyone comes back.” They didn’t even bother to follow up with that guy who lost his husband.

    The world outside my window was profoundly altered, and Marvel Studios reset it as if they were just repairing a few broken windows and a busted water main.

    It seems pretty obvious that this is a me problem. Most everyone else is willing to accept the superficial treatment of the snaps, which I don’t begrudge at all. It just doesn’t work for me.

  16. Josie says:

    “But despite all the big weird stuff, none of it significantly changes society”

    Um, we never see “society” in the comics. We just see random nondescript figures in the backgrounds of cities and crowds. First you’d need a comic about “society” in order to show whether or not it’s been changed.

  17. Josie says:

    Speaking of “the world outside your window,” has any Marvel comic even referenced the EXISTING pandemic? Or only fictional ones?

  18. YLu says:

    ‘Um, we never see “society” in the comics. We just see random nondescript figures in the backgrounds of cities and crowds. First you’d need a comic about “society” in order to show whether or not it’s been changed.’

    Sure, we do. Lifestyle, architecture, culture, daily habits, religion, music tastes, government, it all makes up society. And all of it is recognizably like the real world’s, for the most part.

  19. Josie says:

    “Lifestyle”

    I don’t see any islands full of mutants partying nonstop.

    “architecture”

    I don’t see any Avengers Mansions or Stark Towers.

    “culture”

    I don’t see any mutant pop culture merchandise.

    “daily habits”

    I don’t see Spider-man swinging by on his daily patrol.

    “music tastes”

    I’ve never seen any Dazzler albums on sale.

    “government”

    I’m not aware of any functioning SHIELD division.

    “all of it is recognizably like the real world’s”

    Ah yes. All of what I just listed is just like the real world. All of it.

  20. YLu says:

    That’s the made-up stuff. The concept of the world outside your window isn’t that there’s no made-up stuff. Stan Lee coined the term and he was perfectly happy writing* Atlantean invasions and New York getting trapped in a giant bottle. The idea is that none of the made-up stuff changes the mundane world, which stays recognizably like ours.

    Reed Richards the superhero can own a flying car. Stevie Hunter never will.

    If a comic next month listed Shanghai as the capital of China, would you a) call it a mistake or b) assume that in the alternate reality of the Marvel universe Beijing isn’t the capital? Of course we’d go with A, because the underlying assumption of the Marvel universe is that, aside from the weird stuff, it matches our own.

    *writing = probably just editing and scripting over the artist’s plot.

  21. Josie says:

    “That’s the made-up stuff.”

    No shit?

  22. YLu says:

    Sorry if I came off as condescending there. Not my intention. I obviously know you know it’s made up. My point, rather, was that the whole world outside your window concept has nothing to do with whether or not there’s made up shit but about how it affects the non-made up shit. So you listing a bunch of made up shit is neither here nor there. Glad I could clear up the confusion for you.

  23. Josie says:

    “the whole world outside your window concept has nothing to do with whether or not there’s made up shit”

    Oh I see, it’s the world outside your window if you just ignore all the made-up shit, just like ice cream is nutritious if you just ignore all the unhealthy bits.

    “So you listing a bunch of made up shit is neither here nor there.”

    It’s not here, because it’s not real. It’s there, in the world of fiction, which is not the world outside our window.

  24. YLu says:

    “Oh I see, it’s the world outside your window if you just ignore all the made-up shit, just like ice cream is nutritious if you just ignore all the unhealthy bits.”

    Yes! We’re finally on the same page, thank god. It refers to something like the Marvel universe, where Paris will always be the capital of France as long as it is in the real world. As opposed to something like Watchmen which can do stuff like have everyone drive electric cars or have Vietnam become the 51st state.

    “It’s there, in the world of fiction, which is not the world outside our window.”

    It’s not a literal phrase. There’s also no actual window, to head off any further confusion.

  25. Josie says:

    “As opposed to something like Watchmen”

    Watchmen references actual history far more than Marvel Comics do anymore. In Watchmen, the Comedian fought in the Vietnam War. In Marvel, Tony Stark was involved in the Siancong War, which is neither a place nor a war that exists or has ever existed.

    You just provided the perfect example to contradict your own point. Well done.

  26. YLu says:

    Okay, it looks like you’re misunderstanding my point.

    Because you keep making arguments about how the Marvel universe is full of fictional stuff, but I’m not disagreeing with that.

    The Marvel universe is chock full of unrealistic, fantastical, fictional stuff. But the point is, that stuff does not change the rest of the world, which stays recognizably like ours: The Marvel universe will never be a place where everyone’s driving sci-fi cars. The Marvel universe will never be a place where America gets a 51st state (unless it also does in the real world). Etc.

  27. Josie says:

    “that stuff does not change the rest of the world”

    There are no Marvel comics about “the rest of the world.” They’re only about the fictional elements. That’s why they’re in the genre of fiction, not nonfiction.

    Do you understand that you keep asserting Marvel is X, and all your arguments support the fact it’s not-X?

  28. YLu says:

    “There are no Marvel comics about “the rest of the world.””

    The rest of the world *as depicted in Marvel comics*. As in the stuff that has real world counterparts as opposed to fantasy shit like Wakanda. The mundane stuff. In a typical New York scene, folks will be driving cars that look like our modern cars. They’ll be wearing clothes like our modern clothes. Queens is in the same location it is in reality. Etc.

    “Do you understand that you keep asserting Marvel is X, and all your arguments support the fact it’s not-X?”

    I’m repeatedly asserting X and you repeatedly misunderstanding and responding, “Y isn’t true.”

    Look, it’s simple enough: The Marvel universe will never be a place where everyone’s driving sci-fi cars. The Marvel universe will never be a place where DC becomes the 51st state (unless it also does in the real world). There’s a reason when Ben Percy depicts Chernobyl as part of Russia, we call it an error instead of indication of a difference between the Marvel universe and the real world. Because we know that’s not how the Marvel universe works. The mundane stuff is supposed to adhere to how it is in reality. That’s the point, which you keep misinterpreting.

  29. Josie says:

    “As in the stuff that has real world counterparts as opposed to fantasy shit like Wakanda.”

    If a comic book says that a real African country is located next to the fictional country of Wakanda, then this isn’t the world outside your window. It’s fiction.

    Once again, you provide a perfect example to support the opposite of the thing you keep claiming.

  30. YLu says:

    At this point, I honestly have no idea what you think I’m claiming. I’m not saying there isn’t plenty of fantasy shit in the Marvel universe, yet you keep pointing that out. I’m not saying the Marvel universe isn’t fiction, yet you keep pointing that out.

    What I am saying is the fantasy stuff doesn’t change the mundane stuff in significant ways, so that the mundane stays recognizably familiar. Wakanda exists at Marvel, but there will never be a story about how because of the existence of Wakanda affecting history, Kenya doesn’t exist or race relations are vastly different in Marvel than in reality.

  31. Josie says:

    “the fantasy stuff doesn’t change the mundane stuff”

    This doesn’t mean anything. There is no “mundane Marvel comic.” We don’t see anything other than the fiction. It’s all fiction. The fact that real African countries sit side by side with Wakanda doesn’t make it “the world outside your window.” It’s entirely fictional.

  32. Josie says:

    “Kenya doesn’t exist or race relations are vastly different in Marvel than in reality”

    How many innocent black civilians have we seen murdered by police in Marvel comics?

  33. YLu says:

    ‘We don’t see anything other than the fiction. It’s all fiction.’

    And you’re back to pointing out that it’s fictional even though nobody’s claiming otherwise.

    Again, the ACTUAL point: “The Marvel universe will never be a place where everyone’s driving sci-fi cars. The Marvel universe will never be a place where DC becomes the 51st state (unless it also does in the real world). There’s a reason when Ben Percy depicts Chernobyl as part of Russia, we call it an error instead of indication of a difference between the Marvel universe and the real world. Because we know that’s not how the Marvel universe works. The mundane stuff is supposed to adhere to how it is in reality.” That’s the actual point; do you disagree with it, or only with the arguments that nobody’s making?

  34. Josie says:

    “And you’re back to pointing out that it’s fictional even though nobody’s claiming otherwise.”

    Claiming that it’s the world outside your window is claiming otherwise. The world outside my window includes no superheroes or made-up countries. These are contrary concepts.

    “The mundane stuff is supposed to adhere to how it is in reality.” “Kenya doesn’t exist or race relations are vastly different in Marvel than in reality”

    How many innocent black civilians have we seen murdered by police in Marvel comics?

  35. YLu says:

    “Claiming that it’s the world outside your window is claiming otherwise.”

    It’s not. Believe me, nobody is claiming the Marvel universe is non-fiction. It’s not -literally- outside someone’s window. You know this. I know you do because you were originally claiming it stopped being the world outside your window in the Jemas era, and I doubt you meant it was actually real before the 2000s. (Or that you meant it didn’t depict superheroes and made-up countries before then.) But when someone starts backtracking and focusing more on semantic wrangling than the actual point — which you keep sidestepping when I bring it up — it’s clear they’re more interested in scoring some nebulous win than in discussing the actual point. Which is my cue to bow out. Have a good one.

  36. Col_Fury says:

    Has anyone read Steeltown Rockers? That was a comic that dealt with the “mundane” stuff in the Marvel Universe. Just some kids trying to put a band together. Fun stuff.

  37. Josie says:

    “you were originally claiming it stopped being the world outside your window in the Jemas era”

    Do you understand why I said this? Because in the Jemas era, marvel comics abandoned many of the elements of the superhero and fantasy genre. The characters either wore street clothes or wore much less gaudy costumes. They would go entire issues without conflict or a display of powers. They were in fact concerned with mundane issues that real people engage in, and not threats against the world or realities. That is why that description was more appropriate at the time.

    That description hasn’t been applicable since roughly 2004.

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