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May 11

X-Men #11 annotations

Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2022 by Paul in Annotations

As always, this post contains spoilers, and page numbers go by the digital edition.

X-MEN vol 6 #11
“A Busted Hand”
Writer: Gerry Duggaan
Artist: Pepe Larraz
Colourist: Marte Gracia
Letterer: Clayton Cowles
Editor: Jordan D White

COVER / PAGE 1. The female X-Men standing over defeated thugs from Gameworld. They’re wearing their Hellfire Gala costumes from last year.

PAGE 2. Opening quote. At the end of last issue, Gambit put Rogue in touch with Rocket, to get information about Gameworld (where Rocket happened to be anyway). Rocket clearly doesn’t fancy Gameworld’s chances now that the X-Men are coming.

PAGES 3-4. Flashback: Mojo steers Gameworld towards Earth.

Mojo. The last time we saw Mojo was in X-Factor #9, when a group led by Magik forced him to put a stop to slavery and mutant exploitation. That issue left him still notionally in charge, albeit under a forced pact. (“You’re partners with Krakoa now. Sign the #$%& dotted line.”) However, this flashback could easily take place before that, because X-Factor #9 was shortly before the Hellfire Gala, and Mojo is setting in train a plan which will become apparent shortly afterwards (in issue #1).

Basically, Gameworld used to be some sort of side project of Mojo, but the other investors were infected and taken over by Cordyceps Jones. Since Jones stole the casino from him, Mojo has decided to bring it down by – somehow or other – steering the gamblers into launching attacks on Earth. (Presumably the usual targets of Gameworld were backwater planets not under the protection of any of the major Marvel Universe empires.) Mojo figures that this is bound to draw the attention of the X-Men and the Avengers.

It’s worth noting that throughout the rest of the issue, characters assume that Gameworld was turned towards Earth in some sort of anti-mutant scheme, specifically prompted by the colonisation of Arakko. But according to this scene, they’re wrong – Mojo didn’t even particularly care which superheroes would respond to the attacks.

Mojo is surrounded by old-fashioned cathode ray televisions, a nod to the character’s background as a TV/media parody (at least in his early X-Men appearances). Those TVs show the X-Men as they are now – in particular, Scott appears as Captain Krakoa. But if this scene shows Mojo setting in train the events of issue #1, then Scott plainly can’t be Captain Krakoa yet. So either his screens are showing the future, or it’s an art error.

PAGE 5. Lorna, Jean, Rogue and Laura arrive on Gameworld.

Mysterium is a miracle metal which was recovered and unleashed onto the galactic economy by S.W.O.R.D., also at around the time of last year’s Hellfire Gala. It serves a similar role on the galactic stage to Krakoan drugs on Earth.

PAGE 6. Recap and credits.

PAGE 7. Flashback: Rocket explains the premise of Gameworld.

Pretty straightforward. The colouring here is curiously subdued and bleak, presumably inviting us to take Gameworld seriously. It also lets Rocket wave a spade symbol at us, for what might be thematic reasons.

Despite the reference to “Gambit’s extralegal gambling den”, as best I can tell, there’s nothing illegal about private social poker games in New York.

PAGE 8. The X-Men go their separate ways.

And Polaris is immediately distracted. It’s not subtle, this stuff.

PAGE 9. The Avengers visit Sunfire.

Sunfire doesn’t accept that there’s any problem with increased attacks on Earth – even though it must be completely obvious to the Avengers. Presumably that’s the party line, and driven by a concern that it’ll be blamed on Arakko. Understandably, the Avengers think this is pretty ridiculous and seem to be trying to drive a wedge between Sunfire and his teammates by pointing out (quite correctly) that he’s been left behind. It doesn’t seem to be working.

PAGE 10. Captain Krakoa and Synch head towards Dr Stasis’ base.

The narrator refers to Scott as “Captain Krakoa” (as does the recap page).

As already noted, Scott’s assumptions about why Earth is being attacked are wrong, per the opening scene.

PAGES 11-12. Cordyceps captures Laura.

Straightforward.

PAGES 13-14. Synch fights Bornan.

We established in issue #7 that Synch can now copy the powers of people that he’s spent a long time around, even if they aren’t actually present; hence his copying Laura’s powers here. (You can tell it’s Laura rather than Logan from the number of claws.) Synch has “been Wolverine longer than anyone alive” because of the time he spent with Laura in the Vault – centuries from their perspective – which only he remembers.

PAGES 15-18. Jean confronts the gamblers.

We’re back to Jean disavowing her codename and asserting that she’s an adult nowadays. Well and good, though we did this cycle in the 90s, and there’s at least something of a social pressure on Krakoa to choose “mutant names”.

I’m not convinced this story gets the tone right. Granted, the planet that’s destroyed by the gamblers in this scene might well be uninhabited. Nonetheless, everyone feels weirdly relaxed about what logically ought to be casual genocide. Even the X-Men seem to treat it as more of a posturing opportunity than an existential threat. It feels like the book can’t make up its mind how seriously it wants to invite us to take this.

“I did not even let the Phoenix command me.” Um… what? Jean’s inability to control the power of Phoenix is literally the plot of the Dark Phoenix Saga. You can argue that that technically wasn’t Jean, but it’s still her personality.

PAGE 19. Data page. A memo from Dr Stasis to his Oblivion Institute. Bornan was disposing of bodies when Synch met him earlier in the issue, so apparently Stasis really did get his creations to kill themselves – but he promises a “next life” at Orchis, so is he making any progress in his obsession with resurrection?

Captain America was decidedly unsure about Arakko at the Hellfire Gala, and clearly did feel a bit threatened by the exclusion of non-mutants from the colonisation of Mars. If he’s saying the sort of things quoted here, then he’s either come to terms with it or he’s trying to be diplomatic in public.

PAGES 20-24. Cyclops confronts Dr Stasis.

Cyclops has apparently changed back into his regular costume at some point.

The “last time” he and Stasis “were alone together” is when Stasis publicly killed him in issue #7.

The man under the mask is, obviously, a version of Mr Sinister, but with a black club symbol on his forehead instead of Sinister’s red diamond. Presumably this guy is some sort of creation of Mr Sinister, and we’ll find out more about that in due course. If Stasis has Sinister’s memories, then his “have we met” must be sarcastic. If he doesn’t… well, he’s developed an interest in Scott independently, which would make sense given Sinister’s traditional obsessions.

In Sinister’s origin story, Further Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #3, the red diamond on his forehead is presented as a “mark of Apocalypse”, who transformed him. It had nothing to do with playing cards.

PAGE 25. Trailers.

Bring on the comments

  1. GN says:

    Duggan said that the first arc is 12 issues long so I’m glad to see the threads coming together in the penultimate issue. Hopefully things get wrapped up with a strong conclusion in X-Men 12 before we head off to the second Hellfire Gala (where the new team will debut) and then Judgment Day (where the new team will be pitted against the Avengers and Eternals).

  2. SanityOrMadness says:

    Paul> “I did not even let the Phoenix command me.” Um… what? Jean’s inability to control the power of Phoenix is literally the plot of the Dark Phoenix Saga. You can argue that that technically wasn’t Jean, but it’s still her personality.

    I think this is talking about Phoenix Resurrection, when the Phoenix brought her back from the dead and she ultimately told it to sod off.

  3. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    The diamond being actually a card suit is some ‘The X is actually ten’ galaxy-brain thinking. I can’t wait for the Spades and Hearts Sinisters to pop up.

    Hm. Sinisters. Cards. Obviously Duggan will finally reveal Gambit is a Sinster clone, as Claremont intended at one point or another.

    Joking aside, I liked it. In a dumb action flick kind of way. Great art.

  4. Mike Loughlin says:

    This was my favorite issue of the run to date. Every character got something to do (except maybe Sunfire, but he got a good line about being a goalie). Most of the characters had good one-liners, Synch’s being the best. Gorgeous art! I liked the cliffhanger. In fact…

    “In Sinister’s origin story, Further Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #3, the red diamond on his forehead is presented as a “mark of Apocalypse”, who transformed him. It had nothing to do with playing cards.”

    … the origin of the diamond on Sinister’s forehead has nothing to do with, say, Sinister looking in the mirror one day and thinking, “… like a playing card” before laughing his ass off and heading to the lab to make more clones.

  5. Si says:

    But Laura’s mutation gives her three claws on each hand, they just surgically moved one to her foot. If he copies powers as they are, he should get the adamantium too.

  6. The Other Michael says:

    I’m a little surprised that, when headed for an intergalactic casino, the X-Men didn’t stop to pick up a few ringers like Longshot or Roulette or Domino for a little extra luck manipulation.

    Okay, I just want to see Roulette get a chance to shine… (and the other original Hellions.)

  7. Jenny says:

    “But Laura’s mutation gives her three claws on each hand, they just surgically moved one to her foot. If he copies powers as they are, he should get the adamantium too.”

    Honestly this is one of those things I’m kind of fine with people ignoring, feels like a bit of an overcomplicated extra detail.

  8. NS says:

    “Honestly this is one of those things I’m kind of fine with people ignoring, feels like a bit of an overcomplicated extra detail.”

    And now that it’s been established that Proteus misinterpreted some of Laura’s abilities and gave her adamantium while resurrecting her, it could easily be explained as something he did with her claws as well.

  9. Josie says:

    “I think this is talking about Phoenix Resurrection”

    The Ultraverse thing? Jean wasn’t in that, I think?

  10. Josie says:

    Oh wait that was the name of a series before X-Men Red. Okay.

    Still, we should talk about the Ultraverse, because if we don’t, who will?

  11. MasterMahan says:

    1) I always took the transplanted claw idea as an excuse for why Laura has a different claw setup when she’s supposed to be Logan’s clone. Now that she’s his biological daughter, her foot claws can just be natural.

    2) It’s stupid. Even in the realm of comic book science, just pulling out body parts and shoving them somewhere else strains credibility.

    Laura’s adamantium shouldn’t be a power, any more than an artificial kneecap is – but who knows, maybe Proteus ended up making them a power. The Five are regularly snatching souls from the great beyond – compared to that, altering powers is trivial.

  12. Luis Dantas says:

    Gerry Duggan’s writing seems to run against the grain of my tastes somehow, at least here in this book.

    The effect reminds me of Joss Whedon and Chris Claremont, in that there is just enough focus in certain characters that I raise expectations of eventual characterization, yet … that just does not happen. It consistently fails to happen despite logically having to.

    Even more than Claremont’s, Duggan’s characters are very unreal and unconvincing. They are not at all organic in either behavior or effect on other characters, but rather just vessels for the expression of scenes, plataforms for the development of plots.

    Duggan has a story to tell and he is not going to allow the characters to get in the way of telling that story even if it means pushing them against the fourth wall until it is stained with their blood. I find myself wondering now if Harry Potter is somewhere behind the scenes waiting for his scenes to happen. Has anyone already named the Law of Conservation of Characterization?

    The plot is not quite driving the characters, but rather vise gripping them and placing them where they are supposed to be. I may start to visualize them on chains all the time from now on. It may well make their dialogue and behavior more natural to me. It is that much disturbing, an uncanny valley of a sort.

  13. Mike Loughlin says:

    Luis Dantas: I agree with your assessment of Duggan’s characterizations. I’ve called his work “shallow” before, and you articulated a lot of the reasons why. He hasn’t demonstrated much ability to go beyond his surface plotting.

    For this issue, Duggan’s approach worked for me. I enjoyed the way the plot unfolded and the pithy dialogue. It reminded me of your average Marvel movie. That’s neither a compliment nor a complaint, just a point of comparison.

  14. Si says:

    Don’t take my claw comment too seriously. And yes, it’s a ridiculous complication, especially after Daken and his superfluous wrist claw were introduced.

  15. Evilgus says:

    @Luis
    Plot driving character is a nice summation. What a shame as it’s a fun call back to other girls trip type issues. It’s an all female team with action – but I couldn’t tell you how their interpersonal dynamics drive the plot or character forward.

    @Paul
    ,”PAGE 5. Lorna, Jean, Rogue and Laura arrive on Gameworld.”
    A revealing sentence! Rogue still doesn’t have a ‘real’ name. Lorna’s more interesting than Jean. Just an observation 🙂

  16. YLu says:

    “Shallow” is a good label for Duggan’s writing, but it’s always a skillful, effective shallow. It knows exactly what it’s trying to be and delivers on that. Bottom line, I leave most issues with a smile on my face.

  17. Uncanny X-Ben says:

    Rogue is Anna Marie isn’t she?

  18. Josie says:

    “it’s always a skillful, effective shallow”

    Someone hasn’t read Duggan’s Deadpool run.

  19. Mike Loughlin says:

    YLu: “it’s always a skillful, effective shallow”

    If Duggan’s writing works for you consistently, awesome! His work doesn’t hit as consistently with me, but that comes down to opinion.

    I think most Big 2 comic book writers write shallow stories. Super-hero and action stories tend to be high-concept and/or plot-driven affairs with soap-opera complications thrown in. Nothing wrong with that, overall, but I like it when the creative teams give me more.

  20. Moo says:

    “Rogue still doesn’t have a ‘real’ name.”

    I get it, though. Rogue got her real name way too late in the game for it to matter much (plus it’s a four syllable name. Rogue is much easier).

    They may as well not have even bothered giving her a real name. Or, they should have revealed her real name to be something stupid like Tiffany Snugglebottoms and that’s why she never bothered telling anyone.

  21. Thom H. says:

    I hate that Rogue has a “real” name. She has more reason than most to give up her human name and just use her mutant name.

    Also, “Anna Marie” makes her sound 5 years old. “Jean” isn’t a name that’s setting the world on fire, but at least it sounds like it belongs to an adult.

  22. YLu says:

    “Super-hero and action stories tend to be high-concept and/or plot-driven affairs with soap-opera complications thrown in.”

    Going on something of a tangent here, but are modern superhero stories still particularly influenced by soap opera? For decades, romantic relationships were the bedrock of cape comics (even if a certain section of fandom didn’t like to admit it), but these days no writer who’s not named Tom King seems to care much about it. Or am I just not reading the right books?

    (And yes, I realize it’s not -just- the romantic relationship stuff that drew the soaps comparison, but it was a huge part.)

  23. Mike Loughlin says:

    YLu: good question. I was using the soap opera comparison in reference to the convoluted plotting for the sake of surprising/manipulating the audience (e.g. characters coming back from presumed death, evil twins) and not so much the romantic angle.

    We still have romances in super-hero comics: Nightwing & Oracle in the former’s series, Dani & Karma in New Mutants, etc. The characters in those series know their prospective partners are super-heroes, however. Jumping through hoops to keep one’s secret identity from a love interest seems to be an outdated trope. When’s the last time Bruce Wayne dated a woman who didn’t know he’s Batman?

    The romances themselves don’t have tons of tension, usually, maybe because there are fewer “civilian” love interests. Gambit and Rogue, for example, aren’t likely to be broken up for long. Most non-super love interests and romantic partners, such as Lois Lane, seem to be holdovers from an earlier era. I’m not reading enough super-hero comics to have a definitive answer, but it seems like romance has become more of a background element than a plot-mover.

  24. Mark Coale says:

    You also have Peter and Mary Jane. Probably Tony Stark and X, Cap and Sharon, but I don’t read those books at the moment. We also had Kitty and Quill not that long ago, right?

    Probably a lot more.

  25. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    Spider-Man went back to the dating carouselle hard during the Brand New Day era, and Slott later still had several romantic subplots – mostly Doc Ock Spider-Man with… Ah, the other Marvel Anna Marie. Anna Maria… And afterwards I stopped reading, but didn’t Peter date Mockingbird later on? It was Spencer who hyperfocused on Peter and MJ.

    B-tier mutant books tend to have romances, though it’s mostly been mutant on mutant in the last… decade. Sina Grace’s Iceman was focused on a romance with a civilian, but that was the exception.

  26. Allan M says:

    Iron Man is currently romantically involved with Hellcat, and Wasp before that. Spider-Man did indeed date Mockingbird for a bit, then Spencer had him get back together with Mary Jane, and now Wells has them broken up for reasons to be revealed. So Spider-Man’s still firmly in soap opera territory.

    I think there’s a micro trend is the full-tilt abandonment of some of the staple soap opera engines of superhero comics – giving up on the Superman/Clark/Lois love triangle and embracing married Superman with a kid, both in comics and in other media. Similarly, Hickman just wiping the Scott/Jean/Logan/Emma drama engine. Gambit and Rogue getting married feels like they ran out of ideas to keep them apart.

  27. Daibhid C says:

    giving up on the Superman/Clark/Lois love triangle and embracing married Superman with a kid, both in comics and in other media

    Well, up to a point. Superman and Lois is all about the soap operaish romantic complications. Just not so much with the stable relationship of the title characters.

  28. The Other Michael says:

    Notably, all of the classic Marvel soap opera romances associated with their big name characters have long since fallen by the wayside or been exhausted, or otherwise evolved. But in thee ’60s when they originated, it seemed like most of them needed a soap opera involving their civilian identity, a romantic interest, and their heroic obligations. Thanks, Stan and the Gang!

    For Thor, Jane Foster has come into her own as a character and hero. He hasn’t had a real romantic interest in years. I think Roz Solomon was the last contender. But then again, his romances hinged on the Donald Blake aspect which was likewise thrown out decades ago.

    For Daredevil, sure he’s been through a long string of romances, but almost all of them are dead or shelved, and he always ends up returning to Elektra as the “romance reset.” Most recent otherwise were Kristin McDuffie and before that Milla, but they weren’t quite as soap opera as, say, Karen Page back in the day.

    Spider-Man has been linked to Mary Jane as the One True for so long now that just about every other contender is forgettable, forgotten, dead, a super-villain or all of the above. The Mockingbird thing was never going to last. Anna Maria was only viable as a romance when Otto was at the helm.

    Iron Man’s thing with Pepper Potts is loooong in the past. He doesn’t have many other iconic romantic interests–just whoever the writers decide to pair him with for the moment, like Hellcat or Janet van Dyne.

    The Hulk and Betty… well, we know how THAT goes.

    Reed and Sue as a married couple were end-game practically from day one–there was never any question, no matter how many times Namor showed up to flex his abs and show off his bulge in that tight little speedo. Johnny was/is never going to settle down for good. And Ben/Alicia has always been the “romance reset” no matter how many times the writers pull them apart and try to find someone else for Ben.

    That’s just a sampling. The fact is, soap opera storylines in comics really came from the romance comics that were big in the ’50s and ’60s… when the comics once again steered into superhero territory, they brought romance tropes and artists with them just as a matter of momentum, but as the overall field evolved in reflection of the greater world and grew more complicated, so too did the stories. Endpoint: we’re now in an era where most superheroes don’t have this sort of complicated personal life/romantic situation, and when they do we recognize it as nostalgic/a throwback/retro…

  29. Si says:

    Thor and She-Hulk were dating in Avengers, and it was kind of sweet that he was also dating Jen. But I don’t think that ever crossed into Thor’s own comic.

    Thor and Jane Foster never really worked, and was replacedwith Sif very early. The whole Donald Blake “how can my employee ever love a man with … a walking stick?” bit was better left behind.

  30. The Other Michael says:

    “How can my secretary love me when I’m… *choke* BLIND?”

    “How can this teenage girl ever love me when I’m… *choke* IN A WHEELCHAIR?”

    “How can any of these girls love me when I’m… *choke* PUNY PETER PARKER?”

    “How can my secretary love me when I… *choke* RELY ON THIS ACCURSED METAL CHESTPLATE TO STAY ALIVE?????”

    “How can Betty ever love me when I… *choke* AM A GIANT GREEN RAGE MONSTER???”

  31. Si says:

    Yeah they all did the shtick, but Donald Blake’s was by a long way the silliest.

  32. Nu-D says:

    “I did not even let the Phoenix command me.” Um… what? Jean’s inability to control the power of Phoenix is literally the plot of the Dark Phoenix Saga. You can argue that that technically wasn’t Jean, but it’s still her personality.

    Jean rejected the Phoenix several times since then, at end of Inferno, and again during the Judgement War. Perhaps other times too.

  33. wwk5d says:

    “the X-Men didn’t stop to pick up a few ringers like Longshot or Roulette or Domino for a little extra luck manipulation.”

    You’d think they’d want someone with powers like that on most missions, but oh well…

    “Laura’s adamantium shouldn’t be a power, any more than an artificial kneecap is – but who knows, maybe Proteus ended up making them a power.”

    Yes, it shouldn’t work, but Synch needed it, so…a wizard helped Proteus do it?

    Speaking of Synch, that’s some range his powers have if he can still keep Jean and Laura’s powers while they are all that far away from him. Heck, why not just have him synch up with the rest of the team as well while we’re at it?

    Good art, and good to see the team actually in action.

  34. Luis Dantas says:

    @wwk5d: Synch’s powers have been improved in this run. It was a plot point a few issues ago that he has trained himself into duplicating Jean’s powers even when she is far away, mainly because he has spent a considerable time in the recent past working alongside her.

    His dialogue in this issue implies that a similar effect applies to X-23’s powers, since he has spent literal centuries living right at her side during the Vault mission.

    I wonder if he has also learned to emulate Darwin’s powers at will – or perhaps he has internalized some version of them and does not even know that he did?

    On another note, Proteus deserves a lot more attention than he has been given on panel.

    He is usually depicted as a reality alterator, not unlike Phoenix. But it has been pointed out, rarely but sensibly, that in his original storyline it may make more sense to consider him a projective telepath with an aggressive streak.

    Few if any of his scenes show lasting changes in the recipients of his attacks, which also seem to affect the laws of physics in unlikely ways such as turning gravity sideways. IIRC they are also not discernible outside the area of effect, suggesting that they affect perception as opposed to objective reality.

    There is also the somewhat meta question of how Moira managed to keep him jailed for so many years, and whether whichever means she used would not be useful to deal with Dark Phoenix not too long later.

    Of course, his membership in the Five relies on him having actual reality alteration powers, so this is a largely accademic question now.

  35. Thom H. says:

    I think the idea with Proteus’ imprisonment was: he was kept so weak that using his powers would have immediately burnt out his body and killed him since he wouldn’t have another host at hand.

    It’s been years since I’ve looked at those issues, though, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

    If I’m right, though, that’s a really shitty way to treat your child. But maybe we can file it under “difficult choices when dealing with omega-level mutants”?

  36. Brian says:

    @Si, the bit with Wolverine’s kids having slightly different claw layouts always felt like the old Mark Gruenwald bit about Siryn being a mutant because she had her father’s powers AND she could speak while screeching (as simply inheriting the previous generation’s mutation would not a mutation make).

  37. neutrino says:

    Synch can also duplicate powers from tissue samples, like he did in the Vault. He might have been able to synch with Jean because they were connected by the telepathic network.

  38. wwk5d says:

    I guess that works? He spent far more time with Emma than he did with Jean and he never retained Emma’s (or anyone else’s) powers for all that long…nor from a far enough distance.

  39. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    It was specifically mentioned (probably in a data page) that Synch retaining copied powers for long periods of time is a post-Krakoan resurrection development.

  40. Luis Dantas says:

    After his experiences in the Vault, his powers may have changed in any number of ways.

    We have accepted much weirder things.

  41. Luke says:

    Josie said:
    May 12, 2022 at 4:18 AM

    Oh wait that was the name of a series before X-Men Red. Okay.

    Still, we should talk about the Ultraverse, because if we don’t, who will?

    I will talk about it! I still remember getting a $10 money order to send to American Entertainment to get a super duper special exclusive comic (Phoenix: Resurrection: Red Shift!) that turned out to be a reprint of a bunch of 3 page nothing filler vignettes.

  42. Josie says:

    “Phoenix: Resurrection: Red Shift!”

    I . . . don’t think I ever heard of this. There were a ton of those super rare and also weirdly expensive comics in that era, weren’t there?

    I guess all the Phoenix Resurrection stuff was shortly after Marvel bought Malibu, but not immediately . . . there was all the infinity gems stuff first, right?

    And a lot of crossing over with . . . Silver Surfer, Black Knight, Sersi, Juggernaut, Repeat, and Sienna Blaze. I wonder what the logic was, perhaps “these characters are related to big properties but are small enough that no one will mind if they’re in the Ultraverse.”

    I wonder if Eternals 2 will give us the Ultraforce. Eternals 1 was so bad that I can see Ultraforce happening in the MCU.

  43. Luis Dantas says:

    That was a very confusing time, which Marvel itself largely ignored since.

    First Thor turned up in the last issue of the Godwheel crossover. That led to Loki also appearing in the Ultraverse.

    In short order Rune stole the six Infinity Gems from the Infinity Watch, leading to them too appearing in the Ultraverse.

    Loki used them (individually) to cause trouble with various characters for a while, them they were reunited in an Avengers/Ultraforce crossover that had good art and not a whole lot more. I _think_ that was what led to Black September, which amounted to a break-up of Ultraverse’s continuity just because.

    Best as I understand it, at that point there was a rather by-the-numbers, pointless crossover involving the Phoenix Force. It seemed to be mostly an attempt at promoting a character called Siren as a Big Thing.

    And there was also a series of very unreadable stories involving Adam Warlock, Rune and Gemini.

    The Ultraverse really took a beating after being bought by Marvel.

  44. Luis Dantas says:

    As for MCU appearances, I doubt it.

    To the best of my understanding the Ultraverse characters can’t really be used by Marvel without paying certain rights to their creators, which is why they alone have been mostly forgotten since.

    I can’t really picture Marvel deciding that bringing Night Man, Prime, Mantra and the like to the big screen and paying extra for the privilege is a priority.

  45. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    Huh. Now I wonder if they’ll ever do something with Angela and Miracleman…

  46. neutrino says:

    Angela was moved into the Asgard cosmology and had a major role in the War of the realms crossover. There was an announcement about a Miracleman event recently.

  47. YLu says:

    The Ultraverse situation is bizarre, in that nobody is willing to give an answer as to why those characters can’t be used. Quesada’s outright denied it’s because of the royalties but wasn’t willing to say what the real reason was.

    Steve Englehart has a wild story about how at one point a Marvel editor (who he didn’t name) approached him about spearheading a relaunch. Englehart agreed, so the editor began looking into the rights situation, only to have to drop the whole thing when he was cryptically warned that if he kept pursuing this, his continued employment would be at risk.

    Englehart’s own theory is that Marvel doesn’t want to set a precedent for better royalties because then top talent might start demanding similar for their future creations for the company. But that never seemed plausible to me, given how little bargaining power Big Two creators have.

  48. Krzysiek Ceran says:

    @neutrino
    Yes, yes, I meant whether they’ll do something with those characters in the MCU.

  49. Taibak says:

    Arguably, there already has been an Ultraverse character in the MCU: Topaz.

    But near as I can tell the only thing the two characters have in common is the name.

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